Deer Park Road Discussion

[Patrick]

Let's Bring the discussion about the road and possible solutions over here.

All good info from @Fat Trout - Thanks Kev.

We don't want to be the bad guys here - so we'll need to get some possible solutions to this issue.

@mattybfat and @ReggieHammond are in there often too.

The school lot is off limits during the week, (?) - not even sure it is a great w/e idea w/o permission.
That lot at the end of DP Road is small, but at least there was a composting toilet.

Anything that JORBA can do? Even $$$ - I'm a little behind on who is taking the lead in DP, is it still @Apache1 ?
I think this problem required a dedicated liaison (nominating @Fat Trout!)

Ideas - kinda pros/cons of anything we can think of.

What we know:

Check out the email I just got in regards to my inquiry with the state police!


********


Subject: Deer Park Road

Good afternoon, as follow up to your inquiry to the NJ State Park Police regarding the closure of Deer Park Road to public access. The road in question, while a primary access point to a section within Allamuchy Mountain State Park, is actually a private road as it was vacated by the Township of Allamuchy. DEP has been consulting with the private residents also property owners of the road to seek a resolution on making the needed improvements to the road and to allow the public to access the state park. The private residences have removed signs and the public may once again enter the park from this location. However, please be mindful that park hours are dawn to dusk and to be respectful to the private residences along this road and follow all state park service rules and regulations.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Robin Madden, Manager
Assistant Commissioner’s Office
NJDEP – Natural & Historic Resources
609 292-3541

 

[JimN]

"The private residences have removed signs and the public may once again enter the park from this location."

Typical Fidodie, trying to solve a problem that is already solved.

 

[pooriggy]

Ideas - kinda pros/cons of anything we can think of.

We have access to DP.
Pat is helping.

 

[Reggie]

I have been informed by a reliable source (town councilman), that the entire road recently went up for auction with the homeowner at the last house purchasing it. He, supposedly, owns the entire road with each remaining house having an official easement of use to get their respected homes.

It was also disclosed that this homeowner doesn't want to OWN the road, but wants the state to take responsibility to maintain the road. Supposedly, this is his attempt to help push this agenda.

Regarding this Saturday's ride, I would suggest keeping it at Rutherford Hall/Allamuchy School. Moving forward, I believe users will be able to park at the school during the weekends as Rutherford Hall tends to have events over the weekend.

Just my $0.02

 

[Fat Trout]

Sorry to post that prior item and bounce out without further explanation. I had a meeting I had to walk into. To @Patrick 's comment about park coverage. Jorba lead is @Apache1 as commented. I support Jorba with TM efforts when I can. My email to the state police was on my own as a respectful observation /concern and I was pleased to see the very decent responses provided. I believe @ReggieHammond is 100% right with his analysis.

My read on this is basically that its back to business as usual for now. The Deer park road access point is fully useable for all. The state has at least a preliminary agreement with the new "road owner". "Get Out" signs have been taken down, users may access (within posted park hours which are apparently dawn to dusk as typical for NJ state parks). In the email chain I was a part of Josh Osowski (DEP Regional Superintendent) confirmed that a Park Hours sign was just posted on Deer Park road, I assume within the last few days.

No current action or consideration needed by any of us, Jorba etc other than our usual support of the parks and respect of park access hours relative to Deer park road.

 

[Patrick]

I'll give it until the clocks change before it blows-up again.

The road sucks. We could be the good guys and help with the road. Money, support, a rake, ditchwitch....whatever.
He's in a tough spot. Hell, we could have purchased the road! How much did it sell for?

Or we help locate another lot. Maybe one by a gate, with a big climb right out of it, as long as a jamb band festival isn't happening.
Current one becomes land-locked with a toilet - and a scary one at that.

just because it is simmering now, doesn't mean a boil-over is out of the question....

@Fat Trout - just wanted to move the discussion out of conditions, now that it isn't a problem.....until it is. Things get done by people,
not organizations - so thank you for the initiative.

The most valuable commodity I know of . . . is information. - Gordon Gekko

 

[w_b]

<< slinks away to basement to return sledgehammers and hatchets to tool boxes >>

 

[Fat Trout]

Yeah that paved section of road is a mess and will be expensive to fix, which is why no one wants to touch it and why the town got rid of it. The non paved part (after the last residence) is actually in decent shape and it seems the state filled in the worst pot holes recently on the dirt part within the park. That dirt section also isn't part of the debate (from what I understand). The pavement part is a wreck though and touching that in any kind of good faith volunteer sense (I have to believe) could end up in a "No good deed goes unpunished" category. Staying out of that debate is probably a good thing.

 

[mattybfat]

Reason he probably purchased is he owns down to the lot on his side of the road. So another words his property does not stop at his driveway but to the stream before the lot.

Sometimes that word AssUme comes back to bite. From what I understand he has no issue with park users but more with the state itself.

If I had leading stance here I can identify another leagal access with minimal trail head build, but in the end I digress

 

[Fat Trout]

If I had leading stance here I can identify another legal access with minimal trail head build, but in the end I digress

I'd say everyone knows you're the DP authority and if they don't know that....they should!

 

[stb222]

"The private residences have removed signs and the public may once again enter the park from this location."

Typical Fidodie, trying to solve a problem that is already solved.

I often deal with public and private issues at work and based on them taking down the signs and saying it’s OK for people to use the roadway, you’re better off not Stoking the coals until there’s a fire that actually needs to be put out

 

[DeerPark]

To clarify in more detail:

Deer Park Road has been a private road since 1982 when the Township of Allamuchy initially abandoned the public right of way, and the State agreed to maintain the road. There are no driveway easements for anybody at this time, and legal fees for the property owners are very high negotiating for access and maintenance with the State and Town for all these years.

I put the Road Closed signs up to force this 37 year old legal access problem to a head. The State has been very helpful since that time, and the road signs are removed, except for the signs indicating that it is a Private Road.mm Sorry for the temporary inconvenience.

From 1982 until November 2019 the private road crossed the lands of 4 property owners, one of which was owned by the Township, and one of which is currently owned by myself. I also purchased the Township property at auction (no other bidders..) in Nov. 2019 after working with them to solve this driveway access dilemma. I now own the previous Township portion of the roadway, and am working with the State and the other two property owners to donate portions of our properties to the State so that we all can solve our title issues, and road maintenance issues. The State needs to own the property to be able to budget for capital improvements (road resurfacing, etc) per State laws and regulations.

The State will be taking over maintenance responsibilities (resurfacing the roaad, etc.) . We have been told that resurfacing the road should be completed later in the year after the State takes ownership of the land.

There has been substantial abuse of the public accessing the park after dark, and during this process I have been completing a traffic study, which is why there are the private road signs and cameras on the road.

The Park Service has posted additional sunrise to sunset signage to discourage the multitude of people who have been accessing the park at night in the past.

Have fun on the trails!

 

[JimN]

Have fun on the trails!

Thanks for taking the time to come over here and give us the full explanation!

 

[Patrick]

Thanks for the info! And coercing the state to take-up responsibility.

we'll also keep spreading the word to respect the evening closure.

 

[Juggernaut]

To clarify in more detail:

Deer Park Road has been a private road since 1982 when the Township of Allamuchy initially abandoned the public right of way, and the State agreed to maintain the road. There are no driveway easements for anybody at this time, and legal fees for the property owners are very high negotiating for access and maintenance with the State and Town for all these years.

I put the Road Closed signs up to force this 37 year old legal access problem to a head. The State has been very helpful since that time, and the road signs are removed, except for the signs indicating that it is a Private Road.mm Sorry for the temporary inconvenience.

From 1982 until November 2019 the private road crossed the lands of 4 property owners, one of which was owned by the Township, and one of which is currently owned by myself. I also purchased the Township property at auction (no other bidders..) in Nov. 2019 after working with them to solve this driveway access dilemma. I now own the previous Township portion of the roadway, and am working with the State and the other two property owners to donate portions of our properties to the State so that we all can solve our title issues, and road maintenance issues. The State needs to own the property to be able to budget for capital improvements (road resurfacing, etc) per State laws and regulations.

The State will be taking over maintenance responsibilities (resurfacing the roaad, etc.) . We have been told that resurfacing the road should be completed later in the year after the State takes ownership of the land.

There has been substantial abuse of the public accessing the park after dark, and during this process I have been completing a traffic study, which is why there are the private road signs and cameras on the road.

The Park Service has posted additional sunrise to sunset signage to discourage the multitude of people who have been accessing the park at night in the past.

Have fun on the trails!

It’s ridiculous that you have to jump thru so many hoops to be able to safely access your own home w/out fear of busting an axel or being swallowed by a hole. But we are in NJ.... so...yeah.

Can’t speak on the nocturnal goings on at the park but expecting some degree of tranquility in the evening situated where you are is certainly reasonable.

Good luck with the state.

 

[mattybfat]

Great news and apologies for the previous posts of freak out

Almost all local mtbers know and respect the dusk to dawn park hours. Thank you for finding us here and giving us this update ?

 

[kaitlyn]

Sigh. According to the park site, this road is closed now.

 

[mattybfat]

Sigh. According to the park site, this road is closed now.

Yes its closed temporarily but for an alternative parking you can park at the panther valley ecumenical church off of 517.