Recent Trail Work Authorized?

dkocnj

Member
It looks like somebody has been doing some trailwork right along where the trail comes out onto Artesian Well Road and turns back paralelling the road back to the parking area. Is this work authorized, doesn't look that way.

The first photo here is a dirt jump entering the trail from Artesian Well Road.

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These three photos are from the trail on the berm paralelling the road to the parking area where it drops down off the berm and comes back up. A hole was dug right in the trail to make the jump.
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Optiwizard

Member
Good spot was it wet out there today???
Its obvious that they could care less or think they are allowed to do this. Gotta be local kids.
 

moray42

Merman
No, not authorized. Digging up the existing trail in that manner is pretty irresponsible since it loosens up material that was already packed down, and in a spot like that will probably lead to a fair amount of erosion. Just one more thing to fix next time there is a TM session. I'll have to try to get down there and check this out sometime soon.
 

dkocnj

Member
Good spot was it wet out there today???
Its obvious that they could care less or think they are allowed to do this. Gotta be local kids.

Hit the trail about 5:15, I believe a pop up shower rolled through about an hour earlier. It was a little damp, but only mud was in the usual spots. Riding was good.
 

mike_243

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
JORBA.ORG
Got to agree that it's kids that "jump" will most likely run down the hill after a good storm anyway...is there a kiosk in the main parking area if so can you get the park to post a unauthorized trail work not allowed sign?
not that it will stop the issue but it will set a ground rule..
 

moray42

Merman
Went to Estell late this afternoon to see whats what. Had a folding rake in the truck so i took care of that cheese wedge, and tried to pack things back down the best i could. There was actually a 2nd right where the trail comes off Artesian Well Rd that i flattened out too. The one pictured earlier in the thread was actually more well built than i would expect from a group of kids. Figured it would just be a pile of dirt, but it was mostly thick branches with some dirt packed over them.

Took a hike further out into the trails to see how rideable they were today. As mentioned yesterday, pretty dry and firm, with some mud in the usual spot. No puddles other than on the access roads. Since things looked ok i did a quick loop, and found some more surprises.

Basically more of the same odds and ends that have been popping up throughout the network since at least November. Hate to say it, but these appear to be from a rider, but not sure if it is the same responsible for the wedges.

This is one of the 2 small "bridges" in the lower lying troughs on the trail that runs from the road to the parking lot out to the lot near the boat launch. Walked out this way first, and had noticed that it seems to be flexing more than it used to. That is to be expected with age though. If you look at the ends though, it looks as though someone has pulled this up at some point. Hasn't been moved though, so no biggie. Just happened to catch my attention that it wasn't buried at the ends anymore, and not sure why.
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Whoever was not a fan of the sharper turns has been back out creating/forcing shortcuts as well. This was the most extreme one i saw. Removed the barricade and closed off the shortcut. Used branches and leaves at 3 others to attempt to designate the original trail again.
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This was a log that had fallen over the trail and had been cleared several months back, that has now been set up as a log ride. Could actually be pretty cool, but was pretty unstable as it was sitting. Moved off to the side for now, but would be nice to set it up properly somewhere down the line so that it doesn't roll with someone on it.
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This last one just seems like a lame move. This is one of the dips across a ditch at the end of the IMBA trail near the intersection with the North End trail. This log had been cut from the upper trail that runs parallel to the ditch on the right. Was laying in the ditch, and someone purposely dropped it on to the trail right at the point coming out of/ going back into the ditch. Moved it back out of the way.
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All of this has been just over the last 1-2 months, as i don't remember any of it from my last visit. There is some good news though. There was a pointless shortcut just down from that last log that looks like it has been ignored, and is starting to grow back in. Also, the sandy dip worked on at the last TM in December is not nearly as much of a squirmy mess as it was before then:). Still not great, as was expected, but can be taken with a little bit more speed without worry about continuing to slide down into the marshy bit below:D.
 

Optiwizard

Member
Yeah I do think its a rider but I just dont get the effort they are putting into moving stuff from ride to ride. Some weeks I rode this place 5-6 times and everyday they would block a different bypass. As if it was two folks arguing about which bypass they wanted to use. Me personally prefer to ride with out stopping and fixing trail issues. I'll have to make it out to a TM and see which section/trail is the real one. This way I feel comfortable knocking down unauthorized objects. I'm not even sure I know anymore. But if everyone chipped in the trail would stay in better shape and open for all to use.
 

moray42

Merman
Yeah I do think its a rider but I just dont get the effort they are putting into moving stuff from ride to ride. Some weeks I rode this place 5-6 times and everyday they would block a different bypass. As if it was two folks arguing about which bypass they wanted to use. Me personally prefer to ride with out stopping and fixing trail issues. I'll have to make it out to a TM and see which section/trail is the real one. This way I feel comfortable knocking down unauthorized objects. I'm not even sure I know anymore. But if everyone chipped in the trail would stay in better shape and open for all to use.

Understandable. If your not sure what is/ isn't supposed to be there then don't worry about messing with it. If you see anything questionable or that potentially needs work post it up and the info will find it's way to who it needs to. There are a number of things i generally won't bother to mess with unless it is a significant issue and i can do something. Like downed trees. Might note a big one or something. Digging up or blocking trails just strikes a nerve. Even if i'm not involved in fixing it, those spots that get dug up just end up leading to people having to put in more time remedying the resulting erosion. Granted that is part of TM, but that time could be spent elsewhere to make the park better.
And as you noted, all these shortcuts lead to confusion and eventually widening of the trail, which negates the goal of creating singletrack to begin with. A fairly unobtrusive singletrack getting widened out to a 10' opening because someone didn't like a particular turn is just ridiculous.

For what its worth, i hadn't started riding here regularly until a little over a year ago, although i had been here a few times since they had been opened before that. Out of that time i hadn't seen this sort of issue with all these additional shortcuts opening up until maybe around October. Can't say that maybe i missed it, but the network had pretty much seemed to stay fairly constant prior to that point. That is the only reason that i am fairly confident in recognizing where the original trail was at these spots.

On a separate note, after seeing the additional stuff today i'm definitely on board with Mike's idea of a sign at the bulletin board.
 

Rocks & Water

Active Member
It sucks

It sucks when you see the way some people do what they want to do, and anybody else to hell with. When I started riding at Estell I meet Chris and the other's that cut the trail. Seeing what they all worked at getting pissed on. I can see the shortcut at the sandtrap for the wife and little kids. But that's about it. Ho buy the way someone took the wood from one of the skinnys form the spot were the pics that were posted.
 

KenS

JORBA: Director
JORBA.ORG
Thanks for the heads up and the pics guys. We will do a TM session in June to address these issues, and I will contact the park regarding the cheese wedge crew. Was anyone able to fill the hole dug into the trail? Its in about the worst spot possible and needs to be filled asap. I cant do it from where I am now unfortunately. :D

The cut corners that spring up back there are an unfortunate fact of life in scrub pine. In many places back there we just dont have thick enough undergrowth and growth in general to stop people from cutting corners of the original trail, which Chris and gang did a great job laying out. We can work on signage and keep closing the shortcuts though.

We should be able to get something posted in the kiosk. It was recently vandalized and repaired btw. I planned to update some of the info in there when I got home anyway, so may as well mention unauthorized trail work.

Thanks again for keeping good eyes on the park everyone. See you out there soon.
 

moray42

Merman
Hey Ken. I did pull down that wedge and fill in the hole. Only issue is that i didn't have anything to tamp it down too well. A lot of stomping stuff down and jumping on that section was about the best i have been able to do thus far. Hoping it doesn't erode away before packing down again, but it may need a 2nd go over by the time the TM comes around. I am going to try to make it back down sometime soon though to start trimming back some undergrowth(NEW SHEARS:D), and will see if i can bring something to pack things down when i do.
 

Rocks & Water

Active Member
Thanks

Moray good job on the little jump thing, was a bit bigger than what it looked in the pic. The wood planks that you showed in the pic, that was gone for a few days and someone put it back. One of the newer logovers was also cleared. Some people feel this place is a city park and want it that way for there lazy asses. Like I tell folks, there a-holes out in the streets and also in the woods.
 

dkocnj

Member
Moray, thanks for fixing those wedges. The second one that was about 100+/- feet from Artesian Well Road is probably going to get ugly if we get a hard rain. That really was a bad spot for them to dig out the trail.
 

moray42

Merman
Moray, thanks for fixing those wedges. The second one that was about 100+/- feet from Artesian Well Road is probably going to get ugly if we get a hard rain. That really was a bad spot for them to dig out the trail.

Yeah, it is definitely far from ideal. At least the material isn't horribly sandy. If it was that would definitely start to slide down the tread next rain. This stuff has at least some chance of packing down. I did try to nick the trail a little near the top of the slope to try and get water to shed down the side of the hill instead of down the tread. For now I'd say try to ride that dip with a bit of finesse folks:D. Hopefully it will pack down more before the next downpour. Going to try to remember a tamp for next time out to hit that up of it needs it.
 

pibbles

Well-Known Member
I had originally talked to the park a couple of months back about the log-overs being removed by the volunteer with the dogs. I had also found some ramps that had been put in place and saplings that had been cut down to be used as stakes to build the ramps. I had talked to the park to let them know that the trail maint. crew had nothing to do with the log-over removal or the ramps. They told me they would talk to the volunteer and he has since concentrated his efforts elsewhere. My suggestion would be a tri fold pamphlet that could be left on windshields and posted in the kiosk basically reminding every one about trail etiquette and unauthorized trail maintenance. I stopped riding at Estelle because of the changes,waiting for a tm to be posted.
 

theranch

Active Member
I'm heading out there this morning with a couple of politicians that I'm working with on our Seaview Trails project. I'll try to report back on conditions, I'm sure there will be people on vaca for the weekend that might want to ride.
A fresh can of bug spray is in the car!
 

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