2023 TDF

Kind of sad to see this super tight race come to what it has in the last two days. Pogi just faded today and I think it's all but done for him. I do think it's interesting that while he's as close to a modern Eddie Merckx as we're likely to ever see, what we've seen these last two days is that grand tours today seem to be for specialists who don't race classics or other one day races anymore. The specialization makes sense from a team's point of view, but it really does make it hard for a guy who races a full season like Pogi has so far to really shine against a guy who has been singularly laser focused on this one result all year. I think The Cannibal himself would struggle to win grand tours in today's modern peloton because he'd be racing against guys who only ever show up for that tour (and maybe a prep race they only use to serve tour training here and there beforehand.)

It's either that or Jumbo just has much better drugs ...
 
1speed said:
Kind of...
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Jonas is also just really good himself. He kinda sneaks up on you because he doesn't have the explosiveness and size (and charisma) of podecar. But I don't think there's a rider in history maybe barring the most doped up version of lance that could compete with the current Jonas/jumbo onslaught.

I would also argue sepp kuss is among the most dedicated and talented mountains domestiques ever.

In mountain bike racing we see European riders regularly skip the north American world cups if those races precede the world champs race. In road racing the rainbow stripes are nothing compared to the grand tours. So I'm used to seeing riders skip races to focus on others. And there's more money and more of a team environment on the road which removes so much rider personal decision making. Like you, I don't like it, but I doubt that's changing.
 
1speed said:
Kind of sad to see this super tight race come to what it has in the last two days. Pogi just faded today and I think it's all but done for him. I do think it's interesting that while he's as close to a modern Eddie Merckx as we're likely to ever see, what we've seen these last two days is that grand tours today seem to be for specialists who don't race classics or other one day races anymore. The specialization makes sense from a team's point of view, but it really does make it hard for a guy who races a full season like Pogi has so far to really shine against a guy who has been singularly laser focused on this one result all year. I think The Cannibal himself would struggle to win grand tours in today's modern peloton because he'd be racing against guys who only ever show up for that tour (and maybe a prep race they only use to serve tour training here and there beforehand.)

It's either that or Jumbo just has much better drugs ...
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You can’t discount Pogs injury before the tour. That had a pretty substantial impact to his training. Before that he was pretty strong.

Plus his crash today, as minor as it was…. Also likely had an impact.

UAE seems like they are stronger as a team this year as well which is even more baffling.

Also, I remember another JV rider who had an insurmountable lead and blew it…. So there’s always a chance this gets tight again.
 
jShort said:
You can’t discount Pogs injury before the tour. That had a pretty substantial impact to his training. Before that he was pretty strong.

Plus his crash today, as minor as it was…. Also likely had an impact.

UAE seems like they are stronger as a team this year as well which is even more baffling.

Also, I remember another JV rider who had an insurmountable lead and blew it…. So there’s always a chance this gets tight again.
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That's exactly my point, though. Pogacar was injured racing a classic. That doesn't happen if he's not racing those one day races (or at least it's a lot less likely.) And I'm not saying he shouldn't do them - just that doing them lowers his margin for error against guys who focus on just the one stage race all year.

I don't think the chance is very high that this race gets tight again. Roglic's lead going into Stage 20 was only 57 seconds. Vingegaard's lead is now 7:35. It'd take an unparalleled disaster in the history of the tour to change that.
 
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1speed said:
I don't think the chance is very high that this race gets tight again. Roglic's lead going into Stage 20 was only 57 seconds. Vingegaard's lead is now 7:35. It'd take an unparalleled disaster in the history of the tour to change that.
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Maybe Jonas will stop to have pizza and beer with the fans to make it interesting.
 
xc62701 said:
Pogacar is just a funny kid and so likable. Yesterday’s interview was perfect. First question after he imploded:
Tadej how are you? “Fucked!”
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That should go down in history as one of the greatest interviews in Tour history. I love, love, love that a guy as talented as Pogi would have the self awareness and humility to admit that on camera. I hope he knows that this one word response probably gained him more fans than any result he's ever had. Honestly, I am rooting for him to absolutely crush stage 20 now (and then destroy every single race he shows up for the rest of the year.)
 
BTW, I was today years old when I learned that one of the guys on the moto that was suspended for holding up Vingegaard on yesterday's stage was former crowd favorite and "petit-moteur-qui-pourrait" (little-engine-that-could) from the Armstrong era Thomas Voeckler (who now works for France Televisions) ... I am just loving this year's tour.
 
1speed said:
BTW, I was today years old when I learned that one of the guys on the moto that was suspended for holding up Vingegaard on yesterday's stage was former crowd favorite and "petit-moteur-qui-pourrait" (little-engine-that-could) from the Armstrong era Thomas Voeckler (who now works for France Televisions) ... I am just loving this year's tour.
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Maybe my favorite tdf rider of all time. There were years when him and later alaphallippe would just go off on their own and totally go for it. Part crazy part stupid but always exciting.

The video of his moto just standing there was so alarming that my first thought was he was trying to hold up vindegard. But then Christian said the grade was so steep that he was stopped and he couldn't get it moving again. Also that if anyone was at fault it was the red car. I don't know. But that was nuts. And even more nuts was it had zero effect on the race.
 
Just a funny comment I was watching one of the highlight YouTube videos last Sunday onnthe trainer and had rhe CC turned on.

The announcer said “looks like Powless is going to get dropped “ but the cc showed “powerless is going to get dropped”. 🤪
 
Well the race is effectively over. Good stage 20. And even with the huge difference in time between first and second, it was still an exciting tour. Far better than during the froome/ sky years. I'd like to see more breakways and bigger breakaways in the future. And I'd like to see more of the setup for the KOM like trek was doing. More intrigue. First year I can remember not really caring about the green jersey almost the whole tour.
 
NJ-XC-Justin said:
Well the race is effectively over. Good stage 20. And even with the huge difference in time between first and second, it was still an exciting tour. Far better than during the froome/ sky years. I'd like to see more breakways and bigger breakaways in the future. And I'd like to see more of the setup for the KOM like trek was doing. More intrigue. First year I can remember not really caring about the green jersey almost the whole tour.
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I thought the last couple of years have been very good, but to your point it's been sans Sky.

I'd like to see a couple of stages designed were the breakaway is considered advantageous (crucial?) towards winning the green jersey. It annoys me when all the 'sprint' points are won on a stage simply because a bunch of teams are interested in being in the break, as opposed to a strategy.
 
Can I note something that may make me look outdated or even possibly misogynistic without getting killed for it? I would rather they return to 2 podium women models instead of the guy and woman. The reason isn't because I want the eye candy but because the women are just the opposite of the rider so it's just a great clear visual. Whenever I see the model guy I always question whether I'm supposed to know who he is. I'm not sure what they do for the womens TDF but I think it should be two guys for the same reason. Or just remove the models and have the corporate guys flanking them.
 
Thought it was a great tour. Powless in the KOM Jersey and Sepp in the top 10 for most of it was great for the USA. The efforts all these guys put out on each stage is incredible.

The more odd thing to me is that Vingegaard can't really ride no handed on a flat road. All shakey for the photo ops of team Vismo across the front. C'mon man!
 
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