Because ... 2020 ...

1speed

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
I'm on vacation this week. At least I think I am. I still had to check on a few things for work, but so far I haven't had to actually get involved in anything. Which is nice. I guess. I only took this week off because I have to burn vacation days - I had no plans at all because nothing is worth planning and never will be ever again. So I figured I'd just get out and do a bunch of rides. Turned out a friend of mine was off most of the week, too. Yesterday, we headed out to Rattling Creek because apparently we're idiots who don't consider things like "95% humidity + big, exposed dirt road climbs = misery". But it was still a good ride - the actual Rattling Creek Trail itself is probably my current favorite trail anywhere. I even got the "local legend" on Deep Hollow Road (because no one else is stupid enough to ride a 2 mile, thousand foot climb more than once in 90 days.)

But this is 2020, so even a vacation week has to include at least one brass-knuckled punch in the dick.

For the past few weeks, I've had a creak coming from my bike that I was trying to solve - it only happened when I'd stand out of the saddle so I couldn't really mimic the torque enough in the stand to locate the source at home. So I went through the usual suspects - cleaned out and tightened the bottom bracket, swapped out the pedals (which actually did seem to quiet things a bit, although now I realize that was probably just a coincidence), etc. But after I got home yesterday, I went to clean off the dust and grime from RC and noticed this ...

IMG_2179.jpeg


A crack around one of the downtube bottle bosses (the ones for bike packing mounts on the underside of the tube.)

Seriously??? It's a Moots! Moots NEVER crack. In fact, when I called the shop about it, he told me that in all his years of selling Moots, this is the first time anyone has EVER had one crack. (And I believe him because Moots does offer a lifetime warranty on their frames, so they are replacing it.) But it's about halfway through the tube. I actually consider myself kind of lucky that I found this while at home and it didn't reveal itself on the 50 mph descent down White Oak Road at the end of the ride yesterday.

So, in what passes for good news in 2020, I now know what was causing that creaking sound.
 
Did you ever think of containing all your stuff in a one thread? or is this that?

Title something like One Speed's Miraculous Misadventures on Two Wheels
 
Damn... that sucks. I rode at Rattle Creek a couple of months ago for the first time. Looking forward t o going back.

At least you have more than one bike, if only 1 speed. 😉
 
So wait, you get a brand new Moots frame for free, and you didn't crash and die to "earn" it? Sounds like a positive to me. Yay 2020!
 
Dug this old thread up because ... yeah ...

A week ago, I took a four day weekend to go camp out at Raystown and just ride with nothing else getting in the way. My plan was solid - get to Raystown Friday before noon, set up camp and then ride it all. Then Saturday, gravel ride in Rothrock. (I've already been out to State College for an MTB ride this summer, and I'd been wanting to do a gravel ride there ever since noticing just how many such options there are.) After that, I'd play it by ear to see how I felt about riding Raystown again on Sunday morning before heading home. So Friday and Saturday pretty much went exactly according to plan - I was originally consideirng riding form Raystown to the southern most portion of Rothrock along the Eastern Divide Trail, but decided against it because it would have involved a lot of navigation through backroads and I decided to just keep it mellow. I'm glad I did, too, because it's actually quite tricky to follow those road sections laid out on the bikepacking.com course there - not terrible, but considering my goal to keep things enjoyable, more stress than I would want for my first real vacation bike trip in a few years. Perhaps another time. Camping was great - especially Saturday night" I got back to Raystown around 5:00 and then hiked down to the boatr launch area and enjoyed a really cool sunset. So I wake up Sunday, feel pretty good and decided to start early and get another 30 or so in before heading home. So I ride out on the western section and then head over to the eastern. And then, as I'm cruising along Grippis Trail toward Ray's Revenge, out of nowhere I hear the sound I know all too well - the kind of grinding metal sound that can only be one thing ... I stop mid-trail and start to examine my bike and sure enough, there it is ...

FrameCrack1.JPG

FrameCrack2.JPG


No idea what caused this. I'd have understood if this started back on the rock garden near where Alley and Gripppis meet. But where it started on Grippis is one of the smoothest sections of trails in the whole park. This was just plain failure.

So my ride ended there. I walked out of the trails and just packed up and left. I was drerading the conversation with my shop on Monday because I was pretty sure I had a much bigger problem this time around - Moots no longer makes the Mooto-X. I'm obviously still under warranty since this frame is only a year and a half old, but if they don't even make them anymore, what good is that? So anticipating a potential shit show, I reached out to one of apparently very few companies offering a SS specific frame that doesn't require an EBB (Vassago) and inquired when they'd have restock on their Optimus Ti frames in small. They got back to me right away and that's great - I put one on reserve and intend to get that regardless of what happens with Moots. But Monday comes around and I'm still on my mini vacation, so I bring my bike over first thing when Evolution opens and Scott thinks I'm kidding when I tell him I have another cracked frame (because to this day, in the 30 years he's been selling Moots he's only hada two instances of frame cracks - mine in 2020 and ... mine in 2022.) But he sees it and reaches out to Moots and his contact tells him to send it back (I had already emailed them the pics above by then) and they'll see what they can do. So as of now, the plan is to try to remove the top tube and replace it - meaning they will remove any trace of the existing welds and weld in a new top tube since they cannot replace the whole frame. Will it work? I don't know. They're assessing it now. If not, I don't know what my options will be with them but at least I'll have the Vassago on order. Yay bikes ...

The timing of this really sucks because I am registered for the MoCo Epic 70 miler in two weeks and, TBH, I would be a lot more comofrtable doing that distance on my SS than my geared RKT. But I guess I'll be doing the longest geared MTB ride I've done in about 15 years :shrug:
 
1speed said:
Dug this old thread up because ... yeah ...

A week ago, I took a four day weekend to go camp out at Raystown and just ride with nothing else getting in the way. My plan was solid - get to Raystown Friday before noon, set up camp and then ride it all. Then Saturday, gravel ride in Rothrock. (I've already been out to State College for an MTB ride this summer, and I'd been wanting to do a gravel ride there ever since noticing just how many such options there are.) After that, I'd play it by ear to see how I felt about riding Raystown again on Sunday morning before heading home. So Friday and Saturday pretty much went exactly according to plan - I was originally consideirng riding form Raystown to the southern most portion of Rothrock along the Eastern Divide Trail, but decided against it because it would have involved a lot of navigation through backroads and I decided to just keep it mellow. I'm glad I did, too, because it's actually quite tricky to follow those road sections laid out on the bikepacking.com course there - not terrible, but considering my goal to keep things enjoyable, more stress than I would want for my first real vacation bike trip in a few years. Perhaps another time. Camping was great - especially Saturday night" I got back to Raystown around 5:00 and then hiked down to the boatr launch area and enjoyed a really cool sunset. So I wake up Sunday, feel pretty good and decided to start early and get another 30 or so in before heading home. So I ride out on the western section and then head over to the eastern. And then, as I'm cruising along Grippis Trail toward Ray's Revenge, out of nowhere I hear the sound I know all too well - the kind of grinding metal sound that can only be one thing ... I stop mid-trail and start to examine my bike and sure enough, there it is ...

View attachment 197047
View attachment 197048

No idea what caused this. I'd have understood if this started back on the rock garden near where Alley and Gripppis meet. But where it started on Grippis is one of the smoothest sections of trails in the whole park. This was just plain failure.

So my ride ended there. I walked out of the trails and just packed up and left. I was drerading the conversation with my shop on Monday because I was pretty sure I had a much bigger problem this time around - Moots no longer makes the Mooto-X. I'm obviously still under warranty since this frame is only a year and a half old, but if they don't even make them anymore, what good is that? So anticipating a potential shit show, I reached out to one of apparently very few companies offering a SS specific frame that doesn't require an EBB (Vassago) and inquired when they'd have restock on their Optimus Ti frames in small. They got back to me right away and that's great - I put one on reserve and intend to get that regardless of what happens with Moots. But Monday comes around and I'm still on my mini vacation, so I bring my bike over first thing when Evolution opens and Scott thinks I'm kidding when I tell him I have another cracked frame (because to this day, in the 30 years he's been selling Moots he's only hada two instances of frame cracks - mine in 2020 and ... mine in 2022.) But he sees it and reaches out to Moots and his contact tells him to send it back (I had already emailed them the pics above by then) and they'll see what they can do. So as of now, the plan is to try to remove the top tube and replace it - meaning they will remove any trace of the existing welds and weld in a new top tube since they cannot replace the whole frame. Will it work? I don't know. They're assessing it now. If not, I don't know what my options will be with them but at least I'll have the Vassago on order. Yay bikes ...

The timing of this really sucks because I am registered for the MoCo Epic 70 miler in two weeks and, TBH, I would be a lot more comofrtable doing that distance on my SS than my geared RKT. But I guess I'll be doing the longest geared MTB ride I've done in about 15 years :shrug:
Click to expand...
Damn dude. Sorry to see this. Had a similar thing happen with that sound as well. I too looked at the Vassago route, but wasn't interested in replacing wheels, fork, seatpost and cranks as well.
 
JDurk said:
Damn dude. Sorry to see this. Had a similar thing happen with that sound as well. I too looked at the Vassago route, but wasn't interested in replacing wheels, fork, seatpost and cranks as well.
Click to expand...
Wy did you need all new components? Was that a Vassago concern or was your old frame unique? I think my Moots has nothing out of the ordinary on it's head tube size or seatpost, q-factor etc. But do I need to be worried that Vassago will? I really don't want to get into all that either.
 
Wheelset is 15x100 and 12x142, Vassago is Boost. Frame specd fork is 80/100 suspension corrected, Vassago is designed for 120mm and slacker head angle. Seatpost 27.2. Crankset not Boost.
 
JDurk said:
Wheelset is 15x100 and 12x142, Vassago is Boost. Frame specd fork is 80/100 suspension corrected, Vassago is designed for 120mm and slacker head angle. Seatpost 27.2. Crankset not Boost.
Click to expand...
Yeah, none of that is a problem except the "optimized for 120mm fork". I really don't want a 120mm fork. Not because I don't want to buy one - I just don't want the change in geometry from 100mm.

Uggghhh ... may have to reconsider this frame. I'm perfectly happy with the geometry I have with 100mm - I just don't see a need to change that.
 
1speed said:
Yeah, none of that is a problem except the "optimized for 120mm fork". I really don't want a 120mm fork. Not because I don't want to buy one - I just don't want the change in geometry from 100mm.

Uggghhh ... may have to reconsider this frame. I'm perfectly happy with the geometry I have with 100mm - I just don't see a need to change that.
Click to expand...
Been awhile since I've been on the Vassago website, but now a Ludicrous Ti? Sold out though.
 
1speed said:
Yeah, none of that is a problem except the "optimized for 120mm fork". I really don't want a 120mm fork. Not because I don't want to buy one - I just don't want the change in geometry from 100mm.

Uggghhh ... may have to reconsider this frame. I'm perfectly happy with the geometry I have with 100mm - I just don't see a need to change that.
Click to expand...
What are the geo specs of the Moots? The current Optimus Ti shows a 67.5 HA with a 120 fork. A 100 fork would just steepen it a bit, which might make it closer to what you're used to?
Also, the website specs show a 30.9 seat post. The older model Vassagos used a 27.2, but I think they moved away from that size awhile ago - at least for their mtn bikes. Even the steel VerHauen has changed to a 31.6 post vs. the 27.2 mine had some years ago. Likely due to everyone wanting internal dropper post routing, which has very limited options in 27.2.
 
Ian F said:
What are the geo specs of the Moots? The current Optimus Ti shows a 67.5 HA with a 120 fork. A 100 fork would just steepen it a bit, which might make it closer to what you're used to?
Also, the website specs show a 30.9 seat post. The older model Vassagos used a 27.2, but I think they moved away from that size awhile ago - at least for their mtn bikes. Even the steel VerHauen has changed to a 31.6 post vs. the 27.2 mine had some years ago. Likely due to everyone wanting internal dropper post routing, which has very limited options in 27.2.
Click to expand...
The head angle is 71.25. That's a fair difference - what I'm more concerned about with putting a "non-optimal" fork on is the "net difference" in feel. It's already got a longer top tube , longer reach and stack, etc. to accomodate the slacker angle, so I just don't know if the overall feel of the bike will be comparable no matter what I do, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I could mimic a steeper angle with less travel, but now the top tube and reach is forcing me forward more because of it, unless I start cascading everything to try to jerry-rig the fit. My gut is telling me two things here - one, these differences aren't huge, but, two, I'm really picky and weird with how I want my bike to feel. So those two are kind of in contention now. Aaaah ... I'll figure it out before they have new ones in stock I guess.

At any rate, thanks @JDurk for making me aware of this - it's one of those things that woul dhave bugged me in a huge way if I ignored it until the frame arrived.

Moots:
1664290012760.png


Vassago:
1664290028268.png
 
1speed said:
The head angle is 71.25. That's a fair difference - what I'm more concerned about with putting a "non-optimal" fork on is the "net difference" in feel. It's already got a longer top tube , longer reach and stack, etc. to accomodate the slacker angle, so I just don't know if the overall feel of the bike will be comparable no matter what I do, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I could mimic a steeper angle with less travel, but now the top tube and reach is forcing me forward more because of it, unless I start cascading everything to try to jerry-rig the fit. My gut is telling me two things here - one, these differences aren't huge, but, two, I'm really picky and weird with how I want my bike to feel. So those two are kind of in contention now. Aaaah ... I'll figure it out before they have new ones in stock I guess.

At any rate, thanks @JDurk for making me aware of this - it's one of those things that woul dhave bugged me in a huge way if I ignored it until the frame arrived.

Moots:
View attachment 197115

Vassago:
View attachment 197116
Click to expand...
Like most manufacturers, Vassago has moved to modern geometry based on looking at the reach and stack.
 
So, the Seven that many of you remember as my main bike was "early 21st century" geometry, and very much in line with the chart you posted for your Moots, particularly the head angle. On my bike, it was 71.5 degrees, with a 72 degree seat. Top tube was 24.5". I originally was running a 100mm stem and 640mm bars, so I was essentially in the same position as on my road bike. I don't know reach and stack numbers for this bike, as we weren't talking in those terms as much 15 years ago.

Jumping to my current Pivot: Head tube angle is 67.3, seat is 74.6. Top tube is 25.0 inches. I'm running a 50mm stem and 770mm bars. Reach is 46cm, stack 60.6.

Allowing for the fact that I'm purposely sitting in a more upright posture on the Pivot, it's impossible to ignore the differences in weight distribution between the two, and the consequences for how the bike handles. And my intentions/riding priorities on the Pivot are quite a bit different from the those that informed most of my time on the Seven. The Seven was a serious XC racing weapon, and the Pivot is a pure trail bike, with no pretense of being XC race-worthy.

It seems to me that your Moots vs. Vassago question is very similar, based on the numbers, but your intentions & priorities are the same for both frames. I'm sure the Vassago is plenty race-worthy, but it's certainly going to feel, and handle, a good deal differently from the Moots.
 
ChrisG said:
Allowing for the fact that I'm purposely sitting in a more upright posture on the Pivot, it's impossible to ignore the differences in weight distribution between the two, and the consequences for how the bike handles. And my intentions/riding priorities on the Pivot are quite a bit different from the those that informed most of my time on the Seven. The Seven was a serious XC racing weapon, and the Pivot is a pure trail bike, with no pretense of being XC race-worthy.

It seems to me that your Moots vs. Vassago question is very similar, based on the numbers, but your intentions & priorities are the same for both frames. I'm sure the Vassago is plenty race-worthy, but it's certainly going to feel, and handle, a good deal differently from the Moots.
Click to expand...
Sounds exactly what I feel when splitting time between my IndyFab vs. Pivot T429v3. There's at least a 10lb difference between the 2. Indyfab is awesome for racing XC and Endurance events. The Pivot gets the call for the techy stuff and worked very well for TSE this year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom