Bikes and Moto-bikes - why do they cost… the same?

I like @jdog comparison more in a realistic sense....and even that...High end bikes to high end motorcycles...its like comparing apples and bowling balls in terms of manufacturing costs.

Companies like KTM, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki....they are industrial GIANTS of manufacturing....They have massive assembly plants to make things such as engines where every step in the process has been broken down for maximum efficiency.....Compared to Pivots frame manufacturer where a human is hand painting each frame.

This is what ktm's MOVING assembly line looks like
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compared to this piece of warehouse space that pivot uses to put its bikes together by hand
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Think about building a modern bike....whats the most time consuming parts of the build process? Its not putting the cranks or shock on....its the details....Its running the cables thru the frame, getting all the bullshit on the bar set up, trimming cables......Motorcyles are not built this way....There is a rear brake caliper, line, master, foot brake that gets put on at once, and its done. Everything is designed around the fact that it will be assembled on an assembly line and each step can only take X amount of time. This is one MAJOR price difference. Then add in the number being built per year....How many switchblades do they make vs how many KTM 350s??? I dont know, but im quite certain its WAY more ktms. Then factor in that on a high end switchblade, pivot is essentially making the frame and thats about it. Every other part of the bike is made by someone else and every other company in that chain has to make its own profit. KTM has its own Engine plant....Honda owns a good portion of its suspension maker (Showa) and also Keihin (who made the carburetors) Pivot on the other hand has to deal with Fox, shimano, sram, etc component maker.


Now if you want to go pay ~$50,000 for a Ducati, ok maybe its a bit more hand massaged.
First, take a 10k motocross bike compared to a 10k enduro bicycle. That enduro bike will be (or very close to be) what a pro enduro rider will be riding. A factory works motocross bike that a pro would ride? Hard to say exactly, but probably multiple times more than 10k.
This is another good point...I have been to an EWS and have seen the factory riders bikes.....very close to what I was riding....some did have the live valve stuff, etc, but not too different.

Factory motocross bike? HA!! I remember in article in the 90s about Ezra Lusk's supercross CR250...its cost $80,000 for honda to build it and that was 25 years ago.

Bottom line, if motorcycles were built like bikes, that shitty 250 ninja would cost 30-40,000 id guess.
 
We are to blame for how much mountain bikes (I guess you can count road and gravel bikes too) cost. I absolutely believe that weight, or lack of, drives up the cost of components and decreases their durability compared to the same components on dirt bikes. What is the first thing people do when they're checking out a new bike? They pick it up to feel how much it weighs. I also think economy of scale may contribute to that too but I could be wrong because I have no clue how many dirt bikes are sold each year world wide compared to mountain bikes. I'm just as guilty as the next guy about being weight conscious with my analog bikes but as mentioned by someone here, I'm less concerned about weight with my ebike.

So according to the video 96 million bikes were sold in 2021. 29% of that was mountain bikes (28 million sold).

Motorcycles sold in the same year is 47 million. 37% of that was scooters. So about 30 million motorcycles - all motorcycles. So dirt bikes or dual sports are a percentage if that, so in an economy of scale situation… mountain bikes win.
 
So according to the video 96 million bikes were sold in 2021. 29% of that was mountain bikes (28 million sold).

Motorcycles sold in the same year is 47 million. 37% of that was scooters. So about 30 million motorcycles - all motorcycles. So dirt bikes or dual sports are a percentage if that, so in an economy of scale situation… mountain bikes win.
Yes but also stated in the video there is a variety of mountain bike models, sizes, frame materials and component options. There's only 1 for motorcycles.
 
So according to the video 96 million bikes were sold in 2021. 29% of that was mountain bikes (28 million sold).

Motorcycles sold in the same year is 47 million. 37% of that was scooters. So about 30 million motorcycles - all motorcycles. So dirt bikes or dual sports are a percentage if that, so in an economy of scale situation… mountain bikes win.
What % of those are $150 Walmart or $250 Dick's Sporting Goods bikes?
 
@UtahJoe i think you’re missing the frame production. That’s machines. You’re comparing assembly to manufacturing - totally different.
A carbon frame is not made like an aluminum motorcycle frame. Even the most common CF frame are still a hand process of manufacturing the molds, laying the layers in the molds, post processing (cutting off all of the flash, sanding and prepping them for paint, etc) A motorcycle frame is being welded together by robots and painted on an assembly line
 
Really, the proper comparison is a dicks sporting goods bike and your average 500cc kawasaki.

Or a high end pivot switchblade vs a Kawasaki H2 or a The Ducati Superleggera V4
 
The video touched on the semi-customization of each mountain bike purchase. Each frame can have multiple model names representing different forks, shocks and drivetrains. I count 12 different gen 6 Fuel EX models, excluding e-bikes.
 
Really, the proper comparison is a dicks sporting goods bike and your average 500cc kawasaki.

Or a high end pivot switchblade vs a Kawasaki H2 or a The Ducati Superleggera V4

See I think that’s extreme.

I think “what I get for $7k in either market” is a better comparison. Because I know you wouldn’t ride a Walmart bike, but would ride a Kawasaki.
 
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See I think that’s extreme.

I think “what I get for $7k in either market is a better comparison. Because I know you wouldn’t ride a Walmart bike, but would ride a Kawasaki.
Well no, not me. Id never own something like a CB500....anything I would buy is going to be max performance of somekind....I have owned ~10 motorcycles....all MX race bikes....as in the best of whatever that manufacture made....60s, 80s, 125s, 250s, 450....I dont ride street bikes, but if I did, it would be something that either handled amazing or had ~200hp...otherwise I wouldnt bother.

And to @Johnny Utah s point.....The amount of maintenance my Honda CRF450R required compared to my pivot firebird was STAGGERING. Granted I was using it on an mx track....but oil changes after every 2 hs of run time, air filter change every ride, ate tires like you wouldnt believe, suspension serviced twice a year, valve adjustment, chains/sprockets, clutch discs...dont get me started on cleaning it lol.
 
Well no, not me. Id never own something like a CB500....anything I would buy is going to be max performance of somekind....I have owned ~10 motorcycles....all MX race bikes....as in the best of whatever that manufacture made....60s, 80s, 125s, 250s, 450....I dont ride street bikes, but if I did, it would be something that either handled amazing or had ~200hp...otherwise I wouldnt bother.

And to @Johnny Utah s point.....The amount of maintenance my Honda CRF450R required compared to my pivot firebird was STAGGERING. Granted I was using it on an mx track....but oil changes after every 2 hs of run time, air filter change every ride, ate tires like you wouldnt believe, suspension serviced twice a year, valve adjustment, chains/sprockets, clutch discs...dont get me started on cleaning it lol.

So you wouldn’t ride a Kawasaki MX bike?

The maintenance on the higher end bikes is absurd IMHO. Can’t disagree with you there. That’s why I don’t want one. And if you want a dual sport, the emissions requirements kill it and make it faulty.
 
So you wouldn’t ride a Kawasaki MX bike?

The maintenance on the higher end bikes is absurd IMHO. Can’t disagree with you there. That’s why I don’t want one. And if you want a dual sport, the emissions requirements kill it and make it faulty.
No I would, but what I'm saying is that a higher end mx bike, kawasaki honda, etc.... They aren't like a 500 cc run of the mill street bike.... They are on the fancy mountain bike side in terms of performance and components
 
Well no, not me. Id never own something like a CB500....anything I would buy is going to be max performance of somekind....I have owned ~10 motorcycles....all MX race bikes....as in the best of whatever that manufacture made....60s, 80s, 125s, 250s, 450....I dont ride street bikes, but if I did, it would be something that either handled amazing or had ~200hp...otherwise I wouldnt bother.

And to @Johnny Utah s point.....The amount of maintenance my Honda CRF450R required compared to my pivot firebird was STAGGERING. Granted I was using it on an mx track....but oil changes after every 2 hs of run time, air filter change every ride, ate tires like you wouldnt believe, suspension serviced twice a year, valve adjustment, chains/sprockets, clutch discs...dont get me started on cleaning it lol.

Comparing to the MX track is like saying you are running Mountain Creek 15 runs a day two days a week. When I did that my top of the end Santa Cruz V10 was trashed in two years.

Multiple pivot rebuilds. Multiple suspension rebuilds annually. Tires every three days (if running stickies this went almost to a day / day and a half). Wheels were usually good for a year - plus a set of race wheels for Sunday which also were good for a year.

Racing / track is a totally different ball game.
 
Comparing to the MX track is like saying you are running Mountain Creek 15 runs a day two days a week. When I did that my top of the end Santa Cruz V10 was trashed in two years.

Multiple pivot rebuilds. Multiple suspension rebuilds annually. Tires every three days (if running stickies this went almost to a day / day and a half). Wheels were usually good for a year - plus a set of race wheels for Sunday which also were good for a year.

Racing / track is a totally different ball game.
Lol. My customers buy a used DH bike on Pinkbike and figure since it's a "DH bike" it should be able to be used at Creek every weekend without maintenance. Yes, it's my fault your repairs are so expensive.
 
A carbon frame is not made like an aluminum motorcycle frame. Even the most common CF frame are still a hand process of manufacturing the molds, laying the layers in the molds, post processing (cutting off all of the flash, sanding and prepping them for paint, etc) A motorcycle frame is being welded together by robots and painted on an assembly line

To piggy-back on this, mountain bikes are also available in multiple sizes. That means one mould/tooling for each size. Even more if you have different rear-center lengths for each size. Costly initial investments for manufacturers who need to get their ROI.

Compared with motorcycles, which (to the best of my knowledge) are one size.
 
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