How the hell are we supposed to retire?

I will never understand people defending billionaires. They've literally never paid their fair share of taxes. Seriously, if you have a billion dollars invested, and make 8% a year on dividends, you'll make 80 million dollars a year that gets taxed at 20%. And your billion just keeps growing. That's without having to do anything but live off your wealth. That family and all their descendants will never have to work a day in their lives, and will live like kings. They'd still be making tons of money with the capital gains taxes, without ever having to work.
 
Not Rick said:
I will never understand people defending billionaires.
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So Jeff Bezos starts a company, and it becomes wildly successful. He owns many shares as the founder. His shares gain 10 billion dollars one year, and he gets taxed on those unrealized gains. He loses 20 billion dollars the following year and gets none of those taxes back. The following year his shares are up 10 billion and he's taxed again. He's net zero but has paid taxes on 20 billion in unrealized gains. He probably had to sell shares in his company to pay those taxes. That's fair because he's a billionaire and who cares?

If making billionaires pay taxes on unrealized gains works, how about doing the same to millionaires? And then why not us regular folk too!
 
JimN said:
So Jeff Bezos starts a company, and it becomes wildly successful. He owns many shares as the founder. His shares gain 10 billion dollars one year, and he gets taxed on those unrealized gains. He loses 20 billion dollars the following year and gets none of those taxes back. The following year his shares are up 10 billion and he's taxed again. He's net zero but has paid taxes on 20 billion in unrealized gains. He probably had to sell shares in his company to pay those taxes. That's fair because he's a billionaire and who cares?

If making billionaires pay taxes on unrealized gains works, how about doing the same to millionaires? And then why not us regular folk too!
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Yeah but he defers those losses so he doesn’t have to pay taxes on the 10 million the next year…and so on and so forth. Companies have whole departments to figure out how not to pay taxes….

However, the way you explain it, I kinda feel bad for him.
 
thegock said:
Don't agree.
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I guess we disagree, I’ll live, you’ll live.
thegock said:
C level officers get 1099s for personal use of company planes every year. Unless the CFO is Allan Weaselberg.
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I wasn’t aware of the 1099, but my guess is most of those C-Level guys are saying that scuba trip to the Cayman’s was for a conference that was there the same week. Just saying…

kind of nice that people can have a reasonable discussion.
 
JimN said:
So Jeff Bezos starts a company, and it becomes wildly successful. He owns many shares as the founder. His shares gain 10 billion dollars one year, and he gets taxed on those unrealized gains. He loses 20 billion dollars the following year and gets none of those taxes back. The following year his shares are up 10 billion and he's taxed again. He's net zero but has paid taxes on 20 billion in unrealized gains. He probably had to sell shares in his company to pay those taxes. That's fair because he's a billionaire and who cares?

If making billionaires pay taxes on unrealized gains works, how about doing the same to millionaires? And then why not us regular folk too!
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Or if you invested in some GME calls a while ago, and were taxed on the unreal gains, and then it pulled back. You are a regular guy who doesn't have a platoon of finance/lawyers to help you out with that.
 
JimN said:
So Jeff Bezos starts a company, and it becomes wildly successful. He owns many shares as the founder. His shares gain 10 billion dollars one year, and he gets taxed on those unrealized gains. He loses 20 billion dollars the following year and gets none of those taxes back. The following year his shares are up 10 billion and he's taxed again. He's net zero but has paid taxes on 20 billion in unrealized gains. He probably had to sell shares in his company to pay those taxes. That's fair because he's a billionaire and who cares?

If making billionaires pay taxes on unrealized gains works, how about doing the same to millionaires? And then why not us regular folk too!
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When did I say that I agree but still lol
 
roc said:
kind of nice that people can have a reasonable discussion.
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All I'll say is this, what is happening today is broken, and countries have gotten close to the solution. For the rest of tonight every time someone defends a billionaire I'll take a shot, I will will my bike gear to @BPaze so he can clean out my garage.
 
C'mon. Elon Musk's personal net worth went up $38 billion the day hertz said they were buying 100,000 cars. Somehow he made $380,000 per car on that news.
 
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Here's how the billionaire plan would work (for all those commenting about it with no clue how it would actually work):

It would start in 2022 and apply to people who have a net worth of $1 billion or annual income of $100 million for the three prior consecutive years—2019, 2020 and 2021 to start. They would remain in the new tax system unless they had three straight years in which their assets and income fell below half of those thresholds.

First, as the new system starts, affected people would have to pay a tax as if they had sold their publicly traded assets. So someone who bought $2 billion worth of stock in 2010 that is now worth $20 billion would have $18 billion added to their income, taxed at the top long-term capital-gains rate of 23.8%. That $4.3 billion initial tax could be paid over five years.

Then, each year, they would have to pay a tax on the gain in value for that year. Unrealized losses could be carried forward to offset future gains or backward up to three years to offset past gains and claim refunds.

A different set of rules applies to nontraded assets such as real estate and closely held businesses. Those gains wouldn’t be taxed each year, avoiding the difficulty of assessing value annually.
 
Mahnken said:
And just so that you can get an idea of the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire:
1 million seconds= 11.5 days
1 billion seconds= 31.6 years
It'sa staggering difference.
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Only if thinking linearly.
Reinvested money grows geometrically like a virus.
 
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roc said:
I wasn’t aware of the 1099, but my guess is most of those C-Level guys are saying that scuba trip to the Cayman’s was for a conference that was there the same week. Just saying…
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You can actually see this on the sec.gov/edgar site (try it---I found out that one of my son's friends had a Dad who was a billionaire just counting the stock he owned in his company) by looking at the the DEF 14 and DEF 14A required annual filings of large, accelerated filers---Compensation Discussion and Analysis section.

There may be some fudging, but at that level, the incentive comp and equity awards are so large that these guys and woman want to stay out of trouble over what they would consider chump change.
 
Mahnken said:
Just using that as an example to show the difference between a million and a billion. Because I just don't think people understand how insane having a billion dollars is.
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Sure. Just like many can't fathom $1m or even a tenth of that.

1,000 second is a little less than 17 minutes.
Yet invest $1,000 and measure the time it takes to get to $1m double that time and it is now $1B
At 10% that is three generations. I'm hooking up the great grandkids!
Although I'm sure $1b won't go as far as it used to.
 
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