Do you know your suspension

[mattybfat]

I been around mtbs for a long time, I used to say I can do just about everything except build a wheelset. Well after about 30 or so wheels I can say I can. I have had full suspension going all the way back to a santa cruz tazmon and pretty much always had a full suspension of sorts in my arsenal.

I always thought I knew my suspension feel by just that feel. This goes back to racing DH when suspension kinda sucked so mostly set it and forget it. I been playing this tune to present day even with youtubes and such with never getting the results.

@WickedSistahEast mentioned in a team thread she had Mike Kulp dial in her suspension and this is exactly what the doctor ordered. Met up with Mike on a short but perfect DH run with drops, chunk and off camber for testing ground. We went through every detail and with each adjustment what we were looking for. Mike was very detailed and patient in explaining each adjustment. We got the rear balanced to the front. I could feel each subtle adjustment to where the bike was doing exactly what it should.

Point is I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here and if your in the same boat, it's absolutely worth the small fee Mike charges. He writes out where you were and where you ended up. He watches carefully to how the suspension is working. Because I have plenty of DH experience I didn't need this but he will help you to be in the right attack position to optimize your speed.

Anyways if your interested in Mike's services reach out to him on FB messenger @ Mike Kulp.

Peace!

 

[Bike N Gear]

I been around mtbs for a long time, I used to say I can do just about everything except build a wheelset. Well after about 30 or so wheels I can say I can. I have had full suspension going all the way back to a santa cruz tazmon and pretty much always had a full suspension of sorts in my arsenal.

I always thought I knew my suspension feel by just that feel. This goes back to racing DH when suspension kinda sucked so mostly set it and forget it. I been playing this tune to present day even with youtubes and such with never getting the results.

@WickedSistahEast mentioned in a team thread she had Mike Kulp dial in her suspension and this is exactly what the doctor ordered. Met up with Mike on a short but perfect DH run with drops, chunk and off camber for testing ground. We went through every detail and with each adjustment what we were looking for. Mike was very detailed and patient in explaining each adjustment. We got the rear balanced to the front. I could feel each subtle adjustment to where the bike was doing exactly what it should.

Point is I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here and if your in the same boat, it's absolutely worth the small fee Mike charges. He writes out where you were and where you ended up. He watches carefully to how the suspension is working. Because I have plenty of DH experience I didn't need this but he will help you to be in the right attack position to optimize your speed.

Anyways if your interested in Mike's services reach out to him on FB messenger @ Mike Kulp.

Peace!

I guess this will only work if your suspension is within the proper range of adjustability. Some forks and shocks just won't work well for a given rider unless there is some re-valving done. Not sure how he handles that. Though I guess this would be a big step up for people who don't even realize the suspension on their bikes can be adjusted at all.

 

[sundaydoug]

Suspension bracketing. All it takes is a shock pump, the ability to count clicks, a familiar trail, and some patience.

Tuning Your Suspension - Bracketing

Setting up suspension sounds like a daunting task for most - however it is not as complicated as some may think. Touching your adjustments will not cause your bike to explode, and you’ll quite likely find that riding on the extremes of adjustment (e.g. fully open or closed) may be quite...

www.vorsprungsuspension.com

 

[ebarker9]

I been around mtbs for a long time, I used to say I can do just about everything except build a wheelset. Well after about 30 or so wheels I can say I can. I have had full suspension going all the way back to a santa cruz tazmon and pretty much always had a full suspension of sorts in my arsenal.

I always thought I knew my suspension feel by just that feel. This goes back to racing DH when suspension kinda sucked so mostly set it and forget it. I been playing this tune to present day even with youtubes and such with never getting the results.

@WickedSistahEast mentioned in a team thread she had Mike Kulp dial in her suspension and this is exactly what the doctor ordered. Met up with Mike on a short but perfect DH run with drops, chunk and off camber for testing ground. We went through every detail and with each adjustment what we were looking for. Mike was very detailed and patient in explaining each adjustment. We got the rear balanced to the front. I could feel each subtle adjustment to where the bike was doing exactly what it should.

Point is I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here and if your in the same boat, it's absolutely worth the small fee Mike charges. He writes out where you were and where you ended up. He watches carefully to how the suspension is working. Because I have plenty of DH experience I didn't need this but he will help you to be in the right attack position to optimize your speed.

Anyways if your interested in Mike's services reach out to him on FB messenger @ Mike Kulp.

Peace!

Interesting!

I'd seen that he was doing that and was curious if anyone had experience working with him. I might check it out next season.

 

[goldsbar]

I like this quote from the "Bracketing" article:

"Many of them, even on some very high-end forks, have such a limited range that you may not notice any difference on the trail at all."

My Lyric has ~20 clicks for compression. It takes forever on the bike to turn through them all. There's really not much difference. Five closer spaced clicks would be just fine and much more usable.

Once you have your suspension setup correctly for one type of trail, you'll notice it's not optimal for another type...

 

[ebarker9]

Suspension bracketing. All it takes is a shock pump, the ability to count clicks, a familiar trail, and some patience.

Tuning Your Suspension - Bracketing

Setting up suspension sounds like a daunting task for most - however it is not as complicated as some may think. Touching your adjustments will not cause your bike to explode, and you’ll quite likely find that riding on the extremes of adjustment (e.g. fully open or closed) may be quite...

www.vorsprungsuspension.com

Don't forget that there are potentially volume spacers to consider as well. And on some frames, different linkage settings.

For sure you can get to the same place using bracketing, but I think there's definitely value to having an experienced third party to take your feedback and translate it into adjustments. I know that I'd be a lot better at adjusting someone else's stuff based on their feedback than I am at interpreting what I am feeling and then using that to guide my own tuning.

 

[Norm]

Once you have your suspension setup correctly for one type of trail, you'll notice it's not optimal for another type...

Yeah, suspension and tire pressure.

 

[scott62]

Been riding since 88, here are my tips…
Fox Racing forks and shocks are tuned for racing right out of the box. If you are not racing all the time, get them retuned or sell them. Back in 2019 I picked up a Transition Sentinel with fox 36 performance elite, I spent months turning that thing, finally changed out the damper oil from 20 wt to 10wt. Racing shocks suck for street on cars and they suck on mountain bikes that are not racing. Jmo
Now days I ride rockshox, I find them much closer to trail riding tune out of the box. If you insist on riding fox , get it tuned.

 

[Frank]

I just use the Force.

 

[sundaydoug]

I like this quote from the "Bracketing" article:

"Many of them, even on some very high-end forks, have such a limited range that you may not notice any difference on the trail at all."

My Lyric has ~20 clicks for compression. It takes forever on the bike to turn through them all. There's really not much difference. Five closer spaced clicks would be just fine and much more usable.

Once you have your suspension setup correctly for one type of trail, you'll notice it's not optimal for another type...

If you go through 20 clicks of any damper adjustment and you don't notice a difference there's probably something wrong.

There are so many misconceptions about suspension setup. What's nice about bracketing is it's simplicity. Start at the extremes (damping full open and full closed) and make notes about how either has an effect on the ride. They'll both probably feel terrible, albeit for different reasons. Good. Then go back to the middle. Make one or two clicks of adjustment at a time and ask yourself "Did this adjustment make a positive difference?" If the answer is yes, keep going until the answer is "No", then stop. Maybe go back one.

If the answer right off the bat is "No", go back the other way until the answer is "Yes". This goes for LSC, HSC, and rebound.

If you find that the suspension feels really good at either of the extremes, then either the product needs a service, or it could be better valved to fit you (maybe you're a heavyweight or a lightweight) or it could be better valved to better suit the frame. Most OE shocks have tunes suited for their suspension kinematics, but not all of them.

Sure, you can pay someone to do it for you, but it's not all that difficult.

 

[Cassinonorth]

Been using a shockwiz on my bikes for the past 3 weeks. Probably is 90% as effective as a pro tuning and you have as long as you need to get it perfect.

Been pretty interesting with guess and check trying to get to a good score in the app. Definitely feel like the bikes are riding better than they were before.

 

[mattybfat]

Been using a shockwiz on my bikes for the past 3 weeks. Probably is 90% as effective as a pro tuning and you have as long as you need to get it perfect.

Been pretty interesting with guess and check trying to get to a good score in the app. Definitely feel like the bikes are riding better than they were before.

This was gonna be my first option
I'm not illiterate just very impatient again been around suspension on bikes a long time and motos before that.
Mike reinforced what to feel per adjustment
Also his view in action is something a shockwiz was never gonna give. He knows what should be happening during progression. With both of us doing our thing we were able to pull this process rather quickly, especially since I was on an ebike which made doing much laps that much easier.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

I nerd out with my suspension and try to dial everything as perfect as possible. It takes a while, but if you're paying 5 grand plus on a bike with top-tier suspension, you really should try and get the most of it.

Been riding since 88, here are my tips…
Fox Racing forks and shocks are tuned for racing right out of the box. If you are not racing all the time, get them retuned or sell them. Back in 2019 I picked up a Transition Sentinel with fox 36 performance elite, I spent months turning that thing, finally changed out the damper oil from 20 wt to 10wt. Racing shocks suck for street on cars and they suck on mountain bikes that are not racing. Jmo
Now days I ride rockshox, I find them much closer to trail riding tune out of the box. If you insist on riding fox , get it tuned.

I don't know about that, I have a Fox Factory X2 and its the best rear shock I've ever ridden. Lots of adjustments, but once dialed in its butter.

Been using a shockwiz on my bikes for the past 3 weeks. Probably is 90% as effective as a pro tuning and you have as long as you need to get it perfect.

Been pretty interesting with guess and check trying to get to a good score in the app. Definitely feel like the bikes are riding better than they were before.

I want to try a shockwiz to see how close I'm getting to my "ideal" setup.

 

[Cassinonorth]

I want to try a shockwiz to see how close I'm getting to my "ideal" setup.

I'm considering offering it up as rental when I'm done. Put down a deposit for what I paid for it...$25 per week? Refund the difference. '

I was at an 85/100 shock and 90/100 fork when I did my first ride which I was a little disappointed with. Was hoping there was some unrealized performance I was missing out on. My other bike was a poop show. 60 and 75 respectively with all H/L compression and H/L rebound to adjust which I'm going through now. It's a pretty cool app overall.

 

[Karate Monkey]

Suspension bracketing. All it takes is a shock pump, the ability to count clicks, a familiar trail, and some patience.

Tuning Your Suspension - Bracketing

Setting up suspension sounds like a daunting task for most - however it is not as complicated as some may think. Touching your adjustments will not cause your bike to explode, and you’ll quite likely find that riding on the extremes of adjustment (e.g. fully open or closed) may be quite...

www.vorsprungsuspension.com

And a stopwatch. What you 'feel' and what actually 'happens' are two vastly different things.

 

[sundaydoug]

And a stopwatch. What you 'feel' and what actually 'happens' are two vastly different things.

Depends on what your goals are. If you're trying to set a bike up for competition, sure. Not all of us care about the clock.

 

[rick81721]

My answer to the thread question

 

[stb222]

I would venture to say that most people don’t have their forks setup correctly.

I recommend this to replaced you air side/spacer stack. Externally adjustable and multiple clicks per spacers gives you a lot adjustability. You can also change it easily for different trails, which I honestly only do if I go to DH place.

For me, this is the setting hierarchy:

Air pressure > low speed rebound > air volume > high speed rebound > low speed compression > high speed compression

People also don’t service their suspension either, specially the simple task of cleaning the air piston, which greatly impacts small bump sensitivity.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

I would venture to say that most people don’t have their forks setup correctly.

I recommend this to replaced you air side/spacer stack. Externally adjustable and multiple clicks per spacers gives you a lot adjustability. You can also change it easily for different trails, which I honestly only do if I go to DH place.

For me, this is the setting hierarchy:

Air pressure > low speed rebound > air volume > high speed rebound > low speed compression > high speed compression

People also don’t service their suspension either, specially the simple task of cleaning the air piston, which greatly impacts small bump sensitivity.

I have a DVO Onyx fork with the OTT adjustments, different way to skin the cat. Basically, you set your air pressure and high speed compression to control progressiveness and bottom out, and the OTT to set small bump suppleness. Its basically a negative coil spring, and it works great. Only knock is you can't change it on the fly without carrying a shock pump because you need to depressurize the air spring before you adjust the OTT. Although the way I do things is make a change, go on a complete ride, assess afterwards.

I get my suspension serviced every year. I do oil and seals at a minimum. I don't know how you spend thousands on premium suspension without proper service, but I know people that go years without touching anything until it breaks.

 

[Santapez]

I have a DVO Onyx fork with the OTT adjustments, different way to skin the cat. Basically, you set your air pressure and high speed compression to control progressiveness and bottom out, and the OTT to set small bump suppleness. Its basically a negative coil spring, and it works great. Only knock is you can't change it on the fly without carrying a shock pump because you need to depressurize the air spring before you adjust the OTT. Although the way I do things is make a change, go on a complete ride, assess afterwards.

I get my suspension serviced every year. I do oil and seals at a minimum. I don't know how you spend thousands on premium suspension without proper service, but I know people that go years without touching anything until it breaks.

My 160mm fork is a DVO w/ OTT and my 130mm fork is a fox with the RUNT dual-air positive chamber. I'd say the OTT is a little better for that suppleness and way better for my hand issues.

Fox was much better with dual air positive chamber than stock. Was able to get a lower pressure for initial bump sensitivity but still supportive. DVO I can run higher starting pressure as the OTT provides that suppleness and it breaks away very easily for initial movement but has the support. DVO is not for the weight conscious however...

It's so easy on most forks to pull the lowers and change the oil/grease there's really no excuse not to do it relatively often.