MMuller
Well-Known Member
2015 Tatum was my last race. Got hit by a car in 2014 and never got my mojo back. Went from winning 2011 to back of the field in 15. Tatum was always fun, hangin with the local celebrities!
Ringwood Rumble CANCELED!
- Thread starter Team Town Cycle
- Start date
Pearl
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
300 cat 2 (i assume) racers is crazy work
JDurk
Well-Known Member
Yes, MASS was using Expert, Sport and Beginner before switching the Cat 1, 2, & 3
choop
Well-Known Member
I am not terribly interested in the "good ole days" part of the conversation. Whether good or bad, the race scene is what it currently is. I am a bit more interested in "what are we, or aren't we going to do about it" conversation.
I think most agree its fun to go and race, hang with friends and goof for a day. That requires creating the environment. As much as I really like the Ringwood course, its a split environment and the race is in a different area code from parking and where people gather. This isn't a knock on Ringwood, but its the way it is, and a reason people are race commuters. They go, do the work, and barely stay for podiums. When compared to a race like Fairhill, Sizzler or Challenger where people are more inclined to hang out. If you want people to spend the day, you have to provide a place for them to be, and that means access to tents that border some part of the course that allows spectating and cheering.
Tent space should be cheap. I get its a source of revenue for the race, but If I bring a tent, I am also brining registration dollars, more people to spectate (racers are more inclined to bring their friends and families) and some level of atmosphere. Once tent space becomes expensive, and for example some local CX races are more expensive than UCI races, it prohibits people from setting up for the day. Especially the people that aren't on teams, or the teams are rather small. I am fine with paying to reserve a tent space, but its gotten a bit out of hand and its a pretty equal relationship between the tents and promoter.
Series organization: Especially in NJ, the NJCX Cup and H2H seem to have lost all organization and leadership. No one knows whats going on, whether it be race schedules, are there even series standings, race categories, etc. There is so much event crossover with the NICA, H2H, MASS, and road series. I am not sure if its a lack of communication, not enough participants for all of these series to survive, or a combination of everything. But it seems a lot of registrations are being pulled away from each other purely from planning.
The courses generally are fine. Some are 25 minute laps, some are 45. Both are fine. Not many states have the diversity we have where you can have a sandy single track race, a rocky race, and something in between within a 2 hour drive from each other. This allows new people to be successful every race and keeps people caring about series standings. Series should lean into this a bit more.
We are the problem. Perhaps its human nature to look backwards and say that it can never be like it was. And I get it, but I think we owe something back to what we received and try to pass it forward (cue Yoda). I understand that you did it for a while and want to move on, but can't there be an advisory role to help the next person in line that wants to do something. A way to help out without carrying all the weight? I am not sure if there are people ready to step up, but I also think there isn't a pipeline of information to even know where to start putting on a bike race, especially in a state that is as difficult as NJ. Promoters need help, and we as past, present and future racers also need to do a better job of helping them, learning what they do, so we can take the reigns one day.
I am far from perfect in living up to any of this, but I have attempted to start a CX race, and learned some of the obstacles. I have seen the successful races, and not so much. Good races generally end with a car ride home that embraces laughs with your friends and some goofy story. IMO rebuilding starts there, and no one is going to do it for us.
I think most agree its fun to go and race, hang with friends and goof for a day. That requires creating the environment. As much as I really like the Ringwood course, its a split environment and the race is in a different area code from parking and where people gather. This isn't a knock on Ringwood, but its the way it is, and a reason people are race commuters. They go, do the work, and barely stay for podiums. When compared to a race like Fairhill, Sizzler or Challenger where people are more inclined to hang out. If you want people to spend the day, you have to provide a place for them to be, and that means access to tents that border some part of the course that allows spectating and cheering.
Tent space should be cheap. I get its a source of revenue for the race, but If I bring a tent, I am also brining registration dollars, more people to spectate (racers are more inclined to bring their friends and families) and some level of atmosphere. Once tent space becomes expensive, and for example some local CX races are more expensive than UCI races, it prohibits people from setting up for the day. Especially the people that aren't on teams, or the teams are rather small. I am fine with paying to reserve a tent space, but its gotten a bit out of hand and its a pretty equal relationship between the tents and promoter.
Series organization: Especially in NJ, the NJCX Cup and H2H seem to have lost all organization and leadership. No one knows whats going on, whether it be race schedules, are there even series standings, race categories, etc. There is so much event crossover with the NICA, H2H, MASS, and road series. I am not sure if its a lack of communication, not enough participants for all of these series to survive, or a combination of everything. But it seems a lot of registrations are being pulled away from each other purely from planning.
The courses generally are fine. Some are 25 minute laps, some are 45. Both are fine. Not many states have the diversity we have where you can have a sandy single track race, a rocky race, and something in between within a 2 hour drive from each other. This allows new people to be successful every race and keeps people caring about series standings. Series should lean into this a bit more.
We are the problem. Perhaps its human nature to look backwards and say that it can never be like it was. And I get it, but I think we owe something back to what we received and try to pass it forward (cue Yoda). I understand that you did it for a while and want to move on, but can't there be an advisory role to help the next person in line that wants to do something. A way to help out without carrying all the weight? I am not sure if there are people ready to step up, but I also think there isn't a pipeline of information to even know where to start putting on a bike race, especially in a state that is as difficult as NJ. Promoters need help, and we as past, present and future racers also need to do a better job of helping them, learning what they do, so we can take the reigns one day.
I am far from perfect in living up to any of this, but I have attempted to start a CX race, and learned some of the obstacles. I have seen the successful races, and not so much. Good races generally end with a car ride home that embraces laughs with your friends and some goofy story. IMO rebuilding starts there, and no one is going to do it for us.
Great post. Lots of good points.
NICA info: NJ & PA NICA were both launched in 2017, awarded bids in 2016 with NJ, PA and AR in the same "graduating class." PA is a fall league, so they started 6 months before NJ in their first year. PA recently split to three conferences, with ~1400 students and 900 coaches participating in 2025. NJ Had ~650 students and 400 coaches in the period. Any given NJ NICA race sees ~65/70% of registered students line up to race, and ~80/85% do at least one race in any given season. These numbers are similar across the country's ~30k students and ~20k coaches.
Some random observations:
Some random observations:
- Races that do not conflict with either program and/or other events (not easy) usually have very large NICA participation numbers. Ringwood was the weekend after the first two NJ NICA series races (and over our reschedule date), and despite the promoters being intimately involved with NJ NICA, we had poor reg numbers from NICA folks. Spring break conflict for families didn't help.
- Races that are beginner friendly have better numbers than those who are not as much, or not perceived as beginner friendly (Mayhem vs. Ringwood or Wayway as an example)
- 2026 mayhem: 6/20 elite open men and 6/10 elite open women were NJ NICA students or coaches and the cat3 10-14 boy's class had 33 registrants, vast majority were NICA kids; cat3 girls 10-14 was 100% NICA with 8 entries. cat2 fields were similar.
- The splintering of the H2H series didn't help. Less races = less series incentive. We still get a good bump of series racers from MASS for the Summer Sizzler as an example#. Sizzler also meets the "beginner friendly" requirements, but numbers are still flat over recent yrs due in some part to conflict with nationals, and likely to other factors beyond our control that are being discussed here. Sizzler has donated > $30k to NJ NICA, 100% of proceeds.
Great points!
SmooveP
Well-Known Member
Nice. I still have that vintage Merlin jersey. That may have been the last time I could kinda hang with @Dave Taylor before he became an absolute monster on the bike. Not a technical course by any means, but always well run and fun. It was full gas for an entire 50 minutes.
Great post, one thing to add on is most of the state parks have effectively stopped issuing race permits so it's kind of a dead end at this point.
Xterra got thrown over to Stokes from waway (also Iron Furnace cancelled), Marty's tried to do a Stephens race a couple years back, Bulldog lost Kittatinny, etc.
No venue, no race.
Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?
Germans?
Forget it, he's rolling.
choop
Well-Known Member
I didn’t mean to overlook this and is incredibly difficult to work with state and county parks in NJ. As some involved with putting on races with Marty’s, do you think a the series would have more ability to secure race venues than individual promoters?
I wonder if the series took a larger role in finding and securing venues, the parks would be more receptive knowing the scale is larger than just one event.
No affiliation with Marty's or any other races personally, but what I was told in our annual meeting with NJ Parks they just don't have the manpower to do events so it's a non-starter. Feels a bit like a chicken or the egg...they have no money because there's no events bringing them income, so they have no money to aid with events.
Someone else can definitely speak to what the state is like to deal with on the events side far more than I can.
Years ago I was doing some of the leg work on a race in Stephens. Discussions with whoever I was dealing with over there made it clear it was basically impossible for a few reasons:
1) Parking. Need to get use of the field at a minimum. We'd maybe get special access for the us to to get inside the gate for setup but they weren't really receptive to that.
2) Crossing the road required cops and all the coordination and cost for that. This is definitely a NJ thing.
The Worst
Member
As a JORBA Member and a longtime racer across every kind of bike/run/tri/etc you can think of, I'm genuinely curious about this:
- What makes it possible to host JORBA-Fest at Stephens, but not a race/series?
- What are the differences in permitting/insurance/parks staff/police/etc that make a multi-day festival more feasible than a single day race?
Really it comes down to a race needs the traffic stopped which requires cops. At the event, it's in the field and when you leave to go ride it's just groups and I doubt that's coordinate with the parks department much at all. When it's a race the course including trails are laid out for approval and they will jump in with requiring police at any road crossing which they did when I discussed it with them. Jorba-fest is probably not unlike a knitting festival or Jeep owners gathering.
I have no real input on the insurance aspect but overall they're kind of separate entities. An event you tend to get insurance that covers the event, with a race it's often through an organization like USAC that does the insurance as a cut of the per-day fee.
I'm sure a lot of this changes through the years. When I was looking into it, it was probably like 8 years ago and it was when the parks department was trying to cut costs and make money from the parks by charging for events.
JORBA is an Officially Recognized Friends Organization (ORFO) to NJ State Parks after over 20 years of advocacy, sitting on the state trails council, stewarding a lot of state parks, doing the required paperwork, getting the application approved, submitting annual documents to support it, etc.
Permits are handled by the park office you apply to, subject to the park super's discretion. Some northern parks have suffered from serious staff shortages that resulted in decisions to put temp holds on issuing permits. Couple that with a re-working of the permit process and associated costs, particularly for the Waterloo Concert Field, and JORBA/NJ NICA were the only orgs issued permits to use the field last year.
The state makes effectively no money on these events unless they get creative, charge for parking, etc. so the staffing issue isn't getting fixed through events.
Having secured 5 or more race permits per year for the last decade, and on the team that promotes a MASS race, suffice to say that venue admin is a foundational part of event promotion, and simply is not for everyone. It takes a tremendous amount of work, a good bit of networking and a whole lot of communication.
The Worst
Member
Thanks Ken! This is a great response and really clarifies the differences in a meaningful way.
And to expand on that question a bit more - it is seldom discussed these days, but JORBA was founded in large part to support the local NORBA events that were popping up around the region, some of which were promoted by the folks who started JORBA.
Modern day JORBA's strategic vision still supports and embraces local races and events, but as an org has not jumped into promoting races. Our main mission is trail building, maintenance and advocacy.
Modern day JORBA's strategic vision still supports and embraces local races and events, but as an org has not jumped into promoting races. Our main mission is trail building, maintenance and advocacy.