The Official Uncertified Dog Training Thread

[RobW]

Be sure to support your local pet treat manufacturer- www.shoplp.com

 

[serviceguy]

Took me a few days to think about this.

There's so many things happening at once it's hard to know what to do in each situation since there's way to predict how the dog will be on a particular day, hour, minute. There are so many "things" to fix, it can be like OMG this is never going to work.

So far the topics and suggestions have been about addressing a lot of behaviors. But I think I mentioned before about having a good foundation for obedience leads to better attention and behaviors (for you and the dog) in my view and experience.

Instead of thinking and stressing over what you consider bad things, take a minute and think about what she does that you like? You mentioned shes very good at sit? How often do you practice/reward her with that? Can she do any other more "simple" things (down, stay, paw...) yet? Im asking because I am thinking you need to try and focus on setting her up for success and increase the chances you can give her positive reinforcements.

If the Look training is going well, then switch to some other things she already knows and do drills with her. This will help improve her foundation and understand the boundaries about her relationship with you in the "pack" as the leader. You need to establish your place but this does not mean like a military drill instructor. More like the leader who will always give positive praise and rewards for doing what you ask.

Hope this gives some ideas to continue to try to work with her! #TeamBaileyL

I have had no chance to even look at the last link you posted yet. The trainer cancelled the session we had scheduled for Sunday morning due to the weather and as expected BL became unmanageable as soon as the firs snowflakes hit the ground. Actually even before that, she became mesmerized by two turkey vultures that were chilling on a tree on the neighbor's property, every car and truck driving in half a mile radius, lights, planes, birds you name it. The side pop corrections became so frequent there wasn't any point really and she leapt so up in the air when launching at cars I was afraid she would break her neck, again...I had to work on work stuff I didn't manage to take care of during the week so that did the trick too, going through a really rough patch at work so I really can't get into this. I have a feeling I'm wasting everybody's time so I guess I'll get back when I have a chance to regroup, collect my thoughts and get at least some mojo back. It's a shame because after Saturday ride I was feeling really optimistic about the coming training lesson...Happy Valentine everybody!

 

[Mare]

I am way behind here cause I've not really been online much, but I will try to catch up a little bit tonight.

@serviceguy I saw some things @iman29 said and I am going to comment on them. He mentioned red zone a few posts back. I learned about that with Marlee when she was at her worst. When a dog is flipping out, owners talk to it, yell at it, try commands, etc. It won't work. When they are in this zone, remove them from the trigger. The green zone (like green, yellow, red light), or calmer zone when the dog is able to pay attention to you, is where you want to be. If BL is flipping, you are too close to a trigger to work with her.

I start in house with a lot of commands. A while back I started with the watch (look at me), and touch commands. I did each of these a few times a day for a week or more (so, this means 3 times a day, and each time was 3 sets of 10 - like a bicep curl??). Now I include them throughout other training. Something this simple made her calmer outside because of the mental challenge.

I am quite happy with Marlee's eye contact here It's not always this way, but I am showing you a proud moment that took time to get to. I am starting to work with her wherever I go because I am getting more comfy with her and learning about what to do. This is at a saddle shop yesterday:



Training Marlee was really overwhelming at the beginning for me (beginning = first year...ugh!). I got a trainer to help me, then when she "graduated" I found some online programs to follow because finding my own random info here and there was confusing. I needed an order to follow. Certainly keep asking questions and doing what you are doing, but I am suggesting something online in case you feel the same way I did. I can suggest a few if you are interested.

I think you are doing fantastic with BL and your commitment to helping her shows.

 

[Mare]

@iman29 I don't know how you are keeping up here -- you are so thoughtful for helping everyone! I think your side gig might start here.

 

[2Julianas]

My dog Lizzie is 10 - rescued her when she was 2 (ish) and she had been returned 2x to the same shelter before we took her. She is likely mostly Staffie and she is out first dog

The good: she is completely housebroken, tells us when she needs to go out, loves children, is not destructive to items that are not her toys, loves to nap and snuggle, is smart and learns fast, loves her walkies, doesn't pull on the leash, and will take treats and food gently from my hand and will bring us her toys to play with us. Does not challenge humans for food or resources and will let go of anything on command.

The challenging: she is very jealous of our 2 cats during mealtimes and when we show them attention (but they have claws and have worked out a detente with her) but the biggest issue is she HATES ALL DOGS. She will growl and lunge toward dogs on walks to the point that we walk her odd hours and take routes with the fewest dogs. And dogs react badly to her as well - many times they start to growl and bark at her first and then her hackles go up and she will growl/bark back. So no dog parks, no doggy daycare, and no meetings dogs on walks. We tried for years to change that behavior but at the end of the day we have resorted to "doggy avoidance" and it works 99% of the time.

 

[iman29]

My dog Lizzie is 10 - rescued her when she was 2 (ish) and she had been returned 2x to the same shelter before we took her. She is likely mostly Staffie and she is out first dog

The good: she is completely housebroken, tells us when she needs to go out, loves children, is not destructive to items that are not her toys, loves to nap and snuggle, is smart and learns fast, loves her walkies, doesn't pull on the leash, and will take treats and food gently from my hand and will bring us her toys to play with us. Does not challenge humans for food or resources and will let go of anything on command.

The challenging: she is very jealous of our 2 cats during mealtimes and when we show them attention (but they have claws and have worked out a detente with her) but the biggest issue is she HATES ALL DOGS. She will growl and lunge toward dogs on walks to the point that we walk her odd hours and take routes with the fewest dogs. And dogs react badly to her as well - many times they start to growl and bark at her first and then her hackles go up and she will growl/bark back. So no dog parks, no doggy daycare, and no meetings dogs on walks. We tried for years to change that behavior but at the end of the day we have resorted to "doggy avoidance" and it works 99% of the time.

I would agree sometimes you can do everything and you have to just manage it the best way possible.

 

[extremedave]

Our lab was extremely reactive to other dogs but once past the initial craziness he actually loved to wrestle and play with them. If you could find a mellow, non aggressive dog to try a careful introduction with it might be worth seeing if she’s just really reactive. The worst possible scenario is seeing another dog on leash a block away and ramping up the excitement every step closer. Some dogs wind up be selective and have “friends” but don’t like everyone. Just some thoughts.

 

[Mare]

Dear dog training community,

I was so proud of our progress. Marlee is very obedient in many ways and behaves as good as a service dog at times. Our normal affection routine: I kneel down to let her come to me. She comes, I pet her, I back away and wait for her to put her head in my hand as if to ask for more and say it's ok to pet her. We do this a bit, and then I get up and walk away before something happens. Last night we did this, but she started to snarl and before I could back away, she bit my face, then my hand, then got on the ground in a downward dog and was growling at me. I jumped back and yelled. My face was swollen and clearly bitten, but skin wasn't broken. It hurts a little today, but minor in the grand scheme of pain I have felt in my lifetime. I am shaken up and really don't want to be around her today.

This is the first time she has done something like this though and I am not threatening to rehome her. Truthfully, I couldn't rehome her in good conscience now if I wanted to. I am so happy with our time when it goes well. I am enjoying our long walks. Do I accept that this is what I am dealing with? I keep working with her, training her, walking on eggshells, hoping for things to be ok? I think she was tired last night and maybe didn't want to be bothered. To me, it feels a bit like "he beats me, but he loves me" and I keep working around her needs and shoving aside my fears. But when is enough enough?

Sincerely,
Mom having a breakdown and feeding her dog chocolate covered raisins this morning

P.S. I am told this is still typical behavior of her breed.
P.P.S. I am told I need to be more confident.
P.P.P.S. I am looking into bite sleeves to protect me - am I crazy?

 

[ebarker9]

Really sorry to hear this. I won't attempt to give you advice because there are others who are much better qualified, I just want say that I applaud you for sticking with her. She's a beautiful dog. I went through similar things with our dog, particularly in the first year or so that we had him. On a few occasions we had incidents that seemed to come out of nowhere and it really does shake your confidence and change the way that you view your dog. It takes time following those to get back to normal and it's definitely not easy.

I'd think that anything that you need to do to feel more comfortable is going to be a net positive, so I wouldn't worry about feeling like you're "crazy".

 

[Mare]

@ebarker9 Thank you for your input here. As I go through the phases with her and tell people about her, I am amazed how many people have had major issues. I am more amazed at how many stick it through. I am part of a "muzzle community" online and the issues they deal with --- ugh! I don't know how much patience I have left, but I am trying.

 

[serviceguy]

Dear dog training community,

I was so proud of our progress. Marlee is very obedient in many ways and behaves as good as a service dog at times. Our normal affection routine: I kneel down to let her come to me. She comes, I pet her, I back away and wait for her to put her head in my hand as if to ask for more and say it's ok to pet her. We do this a bit, and then I get up and walk away before something happens. Last night we did this, but she started to snarl and before I could back away, she bit my face, then my hand, then got on the ground in a downward dog and was growling at me. I jumped back and yelled. My face was swollen and clearly bitten, but skin wasn't broken. It hurts a little today, but minor in the grand scheme of pain I have felt in my lifetime. I am shaken up and really don't want to be around her today.

This is the first time she has done something like this though and I am not threatening to rehome her. Truthfully, I couldn't rehome her in good conscience now if I wanted to. I am so happy with our time when it goes well. I am enjoying our long walks. Do I accept that this is what I am dealing with? I keep working with her, training her, walking on eggshells, hoping for things to be ok? I think she was tired last night and maybe didn't want to be bothered. To me, it feels a bit like "he beats me, but he loves me" and I keep working around her needs and shoving aside my fears. But when is enough enough?

Sincerely,
Mom having a breakdown and feeding her dog chocolate covered raisins this morning

P.S. I am told this is still typical behavior of her breed.
P.P.S. I am told I need to be more confident.
P.P.P.S. I am looking into bite sleeves to protect me - am I crazy?

Sorry to hear that. Any idea of what triggered that behavior specifically? Seems bizarre she would start acting up without any input, and I don't mean necessarily from you but a specific sound, object etc.

I have to say that if Bailey L did something like that I would start to have some doubts, I wouldn't mind if it was me but I can't have anything like that happening to my wife. She did growl at her a couple of times, and sometimes she does so when we train her to stay in her cage. Nothing that would seem to lead to a full blown attack with bites.

WE could not see the trainer due to the weather, will see her on Sunday. Snow has melted and Bailey L's exuberance has proportionally gone down a notch, but she's still jumping at cars, while the lulling is more controllable. I did not have a chance to test the exercises suggest by @iman29 and to be honest I just browsed through his post (sorry about that, most unfair on my side given the fact that you've taken the time to post it, but while I do have the occasional minute available here and there at work, my time at home is like a blur) but I'll go back to it and take it all in and give it a try ASAP, hopefully the long weekend will help.

Obedience inside the house and outside when no distractions are present is pretty good, which makes me hopeful we can get where we want, in due time!

Keep Keeping trying!

 

[Mare]

@serviceguy I am pretty sure she's angry at me. Maybe the other night she was tired and I thought I was giving her some petting and love that she wanted, but she didn't want it? However, she does come to me at other times when I know she wants affection, and then flips so quickly, snarls, and bites. So what scares me is that she does this even when I think everything is going swimmingly and she's happy. I see her face the other night right in front of my face with her teeth showing and I just couldn't get away fast enough before she bit.

I am torn between having a dog that I continue to work with and adjusting boundaries to where I never get close to her (NOT what I want in a dog), and figuring out plan B which involves a dog that I can trust around me, my cat, and humans. I hear you about if it was you vs. your wife. As it is, I cannot allow Marlee to interact with most people because she will snarl and I don't want anyone to get bitten. She's snarled at A LOT of people since I have owned her. My sister, unfortunately, is the one who suffered the worst open wounds and bruises, but she is the one who always told me to keep working with Marlee. Marlee feels like a huge liability. But she's so pretty and I love our walks. Grrr...

Let us know how this weekend goes with Bailey L. It's hard to get into a schedule and stick to it, but you'll get there and it will become second nature. I am really glad you are seeing progress without distractions! Like anything we need to learn in steps, dogs are the same way. But it's even harder for them because they don't speak our language. Imagine someone speaking to you in a foreign language and what it would take for you to understand what they are telling you to do. And imagine it in an environment that makes you really anxious. It takes time, but it sounds like you are doing great and Bailey L. is responding to you.

 

[iman29]

Oh no! @Mare45 !!

Just catching up here and I am so sorry to read what happened.

I know it feels like you are doing everything right and then boom it goes wrong in like .5 seconds.

If it’s possible to have a talk with the trainer you used maybe you can get some more official certified feedback as compared to my opinion or other feedback.

It’s so hard to know what triggers the behavior and why she does those things. From what I have learned that is the basic approach but then again nothing about this situation seems that basic.

But I certainly know you are doing everything you can to help make her a well rounded pup and she has really come a long way already.

I will think about it and talk to a few folks I know at the local kennels and see if there’s any other ideas.

Hope you feel better soon.

 

[Mare]

@iman29 thanks for your response and input. I should contact the trainer I used. I also found another behaviorist near me and am going to my vet monday to discuss…they have a behaviorist at the vet too. I’m also just sitting with all of this for a few days cause it shook me up.

 

[serviceguy]

@iman29 thanks for your response and input. I should contact the trainer I used. I also found another behaviorist near me and am going to my vet monday to discuss…they have a behaviorist at the vet too. I’m also just sitting with all of this for a few days cause it shook me up.

Your story made me pay more attention to Bailey L’s ‘playful’ behavior and while she never did really bite, when she gets excited she will jump at me and snap her jaws, sometime making a quite loud sound. I always back up a little so she can’t rash and she doesn’t follow up on it but it makes think, nevertheless.

New problem/solution…I bring whatever bike I’m working on inside the house because with this cold and not having fixed the power in the garage is basically the only way I can work on my bikes in my spare time. A couple of weeks ago Bailey L accidentally bumped into my fat bike leaning against some furniture and it fell on her, she’s been scared of bikes ever since, she will run to mommy and hide behind her in tgg hit e presence of a bike. Major bummer as I entertain ideas of her turning into a trail dog. So this morning, I tried to bribe her confidence around bikes with her favorite treat, giving them to her across the bike, then rode the bike around the yard with her on the leash and stopping frequently to give her a treat…so far so good, I’ll keep at it and tomorrow will discuss with the trainer.

 

[Mare]

Your story made me pay more attention to Bailey L’s ‘playful’ behavior and while she never did really bite, when she gets excited she will jump at me and snap her jaws, sometime making a quite loud sound. I always back up a little so she can’t rash and she doesn’t follow up on it but it makes think, nevertheless.

New problem/solution…I bring whatever bike I’m working on inside the house because with this cold and not having fixed the power in the garage is basically the only way I can work on my bikes in my spare time. A couple of weeks ago Bailey L accidentally bumped into my fat bike leaning against some furniture and it fell on her, she’s been scared of bikes ever since, she will run to mommy and hide behind her in tgg hit e presence of a bike. Major bummer as I entertain ideas of her turning into a trail dog. So this morning, I tried to bribe her confidence around bikes with her favorite treat, giving them to her across the bike, then rode the bike around the yard with her on the leash and stopping frequently to give her a treat…so far so good, I’ll keep at it and tomorrow will discuss with the trainer.

Yay! She's not forever afraid of bikes! Where do you live again? Do you have a fenced in yard? I have a fenced in area so if you ever want to test her on your bike without a leash, come on over. Dog parks are also good for this (I went when there were no dogs before I fenced in part of my yard).

Just cause she snaps her jaws, it doesn't mean it's dangerous. Some dogs do that. But I like that youare paying attention so you can learn her behaviors and what they mean. I just feel a little bad cause I’m talking about Marlee’s worst side and I hope I’m not causing worry with Bailey.

 

[serviceguy]

Yay! She's not forever afraid of bikes! Where do you live again? Do you have a fenced in yard? I have a fenced in area so if you ever want to test her on your bike without a leash, come on over. Dog parks are also good for this (I went when there were no dogs before I fenced in part of my yard).

Just cause she snaps her jaws, it doesn't mean it's dangerous. Some dogs do that. But I like that youare paying attention so you can learn her behaviors and what they mean. I just feel a little bad cause I’m talking about Marlee’s worst side and I hope I’m not causing worry with Bailey.

We're in Ringwood, are you anywhere near? I have a feeling probably not so much...

No fenced yard, we're thinking about it but Bailey L is so hell bent on digging when left to her own devices we would probably open a new way to China if we were to let her loose in a confined area.

We had to procure a new torture instrument, as she won't stop chewing through the blanket on the backseat while we're driveing...so now she has a light muzzle on to stop her from doing that. She doesn't seem bothered by it and she actually pushes her nose through it when I put it on her...we'll see.

No worries, each dog has his/her personality, I just looked at the behavor with a different eye after hearing your story, but I don't think the snappingis anything more than energy release when she gets excited.

 

[Mare]

We're in Ringwood, are you anywhere near? I have a feeling probably not so much...

No fenced yard, we're thinking about it but Bailey L is so hell bent on digging when left to her own devices we would probably open a new way to China if we were to let her loose in a confined area.

We had to procure a new torture instrument, as she won't stop chewing through the blanket on the backseat while we're driveing...so now she has a light muzzle on to stop her from doing that. She doesn't seem bothered by it and she actually pushes her nose through it when I put it on her...we'll see.

No worries, each dog has his/her personality, I just looked at the behavor with a different eye after hearing your story, but I don't think the snappingis anything more than energy release when she gets excited.

I’m near Clinton so about an hour south of you.

Good you’re using the muzzle!! It’s always good to get a dog used to one. I have one, but can’t quite get it on Marlee. I’m too afraid!

I don’t leave her out in the fence unattended. It’s just a good place to play and train. I worry she’d jump the fence or dig her way out too 👎

 

[Mare]

It’s quiet here. Have all training issues been resolved? 😂😂

 

[iman29]

It’s quiet here. Have all training issues been resolved? 😂😂

thats mostly because me you and @serviceguy have been too busy to post stuff here 😆 😆 😆