This Thread Blows - C19 and beyond

rick81721 said:
Oh so the math that said Sweden's health care system would have collapsed by now? Or is the answer that it did, but they are somehow hiding it from the world??

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I'm claiming that they are manipulating the information - just like they did on july 4th in the US, cause reporting
on independence day is disrespectful. one day people are dropping, and there are very few cases, the next day the cases go up,
and the deaths drop off, so the ratios start to look better.
 
mfennell said:
With respect to deaths, that's not true. The medical community is already much better at keeping COVID patients alive than 3 months ago.
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Well, the short spike of panic that NJ/NY experienced was unique, and there wasn't much avoiding the deadly learning process. We learned ventilators are deadly, keep patients on their stomachs, etc. But once past that and knowing what we now know, as long as people aren't dying because there isn't enough medical facilities, are there more deaths?

I'm very curious if anyone knows, has there been much improvement in medical care for Covid patients since June 1 or so?
 
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Santapez said:
Well, the short spike of panic that NJ/NY experienced was unique, and there wasn't much avoiding the deadly learning process. We learned ventilators are deadly, keep patients on their stomachs, etc. But once past that and knowing what we now know, as long as people aren't dying because there isn't enough medical facilities, are there more deaths?

I'm very curious if anyone knows, has there been much improvement in medical care for Covid patients since June 1 or so?
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The dexamethasone results come out after June 1.
Probably off-label use well before then?
 
I haven't read all 252 pages here, but caught the last few. Apologies if I am repeating items here...

While sad I am glad that Florida does not have the NY\NJ numbers. Their population of 65 or over is about 20%. Compared to NJ at 13.5%.

While spectics can play Monday morning QB about whether it was avoidable if actions were taken in December of 2019 that remains to be seen in the history books and further analysis of numbers.

Today's NYT read almost made me spit out my coffee by Trump
“It will probably, unfortunately, get worse before it gets better,” President Trump said at his first televised news conference on the virus in weeks. “Something I don’t like saying about things, but that’s the way it is.”
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Outside of COVID the numbers I did like seeing were the small business even though I suspect those numbers to go down again after further closing.

1uDJ7LCk-szKl5EDULCTw4t4pCno0LtP5qRAxJ0s8ukg0FCV8ZAJ5wjNFo6yFmHTJpuygSbz64-8t1AcdOPuTHUKy0Z91I0jJsFT8MXNm8d5BH1T0BNbkuzIjvqDO74HUjbgiKOERGiv_kxlBhIbpa2sd6bb612BZA=s0-d-e1-ft
 
In mid-April, something strange started happening in the U.S. economy: Smaller companies — those with fewer than 500 workers — started rehiring workers more quickly than larger companies. You can see the pattern in this chart:​
1uDJ7LCk-szKl5EDULCTw4t4pCno0LtP5qRAxJ0s8ukg0FCV8ZAJ5wjNFo6yFmHTJpuygSbz64-8t1AcdOPuTHUKy0Z91I0jJsFT8MXNm8d5BH1T0BNbkuzIjvqDO74HUjbgiKOERGiv_kxlBhIbpa2sd6bb612BZA=s0-d-e1-ft
By The New York Times | Sources: ADP Research Institute, Federal Reserve Board, M.I.T.​
During a typical crisis, large companies have important advantages, like more cash on hand and better digital operations. So why were smaller companies apparently faring better during the lockdowns this spring?​
The answer, it appears, is government policy.​
The economic-rescue plan that the federal government created in March included loans — from the Paycheck Protection Program, or P.P.P. — meant to reduce job losses, mostly at companies with fewer than 500 workers. If the companies maintained their employment levels, the government would ultimately forgive the loans.​
In all, the P.P.P. saved between 1.5 million and 3.5 million jobs, according to a new study by researchers at M.I.T., the Federal Reserve and the ADP Research Institute.​
The study adds to the mounting evidence about one kind of economic stimulus that seems to have worked especially well during the pandemic: direct subsidies to businesses, to keep people employed.​
Countries that have enacted aggressive versions of those subsidies — like Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand — have kept unemployment fairly low. Those programs have several advantages, allowing businesses to close for public health reasons without severing their relationship with their workers or leaving those workers without income.​
The U.S. has instead taken a scattershot approach, with a combination of direct payments to families (including many who have not lost a job), unemployment benefits and the P.P.P. loans. Many companies that didn’t get loans — because the companies were too big or because the money was running out — have laid off workers. The U.S. unemployment rate last month was 11.1 percent, compared with 6.2 percent in Germany.​
Business subsidies do have one major disadvantage, especially relative to unemployment benefits. The government can’t know precisely which companies would have held onto their workers even without help and, as a result, subsidizes some firms that don’t need it.​
“This is very expensive,” David Autor, an M.I.T. professor and one of the economists who did the new study, told me. But, he added, “we got something for it.”​
What’s next? The latest version of stimulus that the House of Representative passed includes an expansion of employment subsidies, but it may not be part of the final plan. The Senate has not yet passed a new version of stimulus.​
Congressional leaders and Trump administration are now negotiating over what will be included in the final package, including unemployment benefits, a tax cut, aid to states, money for virus testing and more. The Times covers the latest developments here.​
An economic cliff: The expansion of unemployment passed in March is set to expire next week, and economists believe its end is likely to damage the economy.​
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thegock said:
tRUMP is like the stupid kid in class, who does no homework all semester and comes to the teacher in the last week asking how he can improve his grade.

Really?
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I think the entire reason he said it is because of what Chris Matthews did to him in the Fox interview and now he'll market this in his re-election crap.
 
Patrick said:
I'm claiming that they are manipulating the information - just like they did on july 4th in the US, cause reporting
on independence day is disrespectful. one day people are dropping, and there are very few cases, the next day the cases go up,
and the deaths drop off, so the ratios start to look better.
Click to expand...

I'm curious how you think they are getting away with this conspiracy theory. Do you think Sweden has total control over it's media/press? But Sweden annually ranks #4 in the world as having the most free press:

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

So how does this work? Did Sweden round up all their reporters and throw them into a gulag? The same gulag that is hiding tens of thousands of covid patients and mass graves for thousands of extra covid deaths?

My rudimentary math says it doesn't add up!
 
RIDEr said:
I haven't read all 252 pages here, but caught the last few. Apologies if I am repeating items here...

While sad I am glad that Florida does not have the NY\NJ numbers. Their population of 65 or over is about 20%. Compared to NJ at 13.5%.

While spectics can play Monday morning QB about whether it was avoidable if actions were taken in December of 2019 that remains to be seen in the history books and further analysis of numbers.

Today's NYT read almost made me spit out my coffee by Trump


Outside of COVID the numbers I did like seeing were the small business even though I suspect those numbers to go down again after further closing.

1uDJ7LCk-szKl5EDULCTw4t4pCno0LtP5qRAxJ0s8ukg0FCV8ZAJ5wjNFo6yFmHTJpuygSbz64-8t1AcdOPuTHUKy0Z91I0jJsFT8MXNm8d5BH1T0BNbkuzIjvqDO74HUjbgiKOERGiv_kxlBhIbpa2sd6bb612BZA=s0-d-e1-ft
Click to expand...
Small business that received PPP had to maintain a certain employment level for a period of time to have the loans guaranteed, you are going to see them begin to terminate these people shortly as the economy continues to struggle. How large the firings will be is going to be dictated by the length of the economic strife
 
Patrick said:
The dexamethasone results come out after June 1.
Probably off-label use well before then?
Click to expand...

The whole dexamethasone thing is fascinating. Its touted as some big discovery, when drugs like dexamethasone, prednisone, and other corticosteroids are usually the first thing you give to stifle and autoimmune response, or anything were you want to down-regulate cytokines and other modulators of inflammation. That's what this "cytokine storm" is, an over-reaction by your immune system.
 
rick81721 said:
I'm curious how you think they are getting away with this conspiracy theory. Do you think Sweden has total control over it's media/press? But Sweden annually ranks #4 in the world as having the most free press:

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

So how does this work? Did Sweden round up all their reporters and throw them into a gulag? The same gulag that is hiding tens of thousands of covid patients and mass graves for thousands of extra covid deaths?

My rudimentary math says it doesn't add up!
Click to expand...

it is simple - reporting policy.

if you are sick, stay home and stay away from people.
If you go to the hospital, we will test you, but only go if you need hospital care,
and if you die after we test you and you are positive, we'll count you.
don't test post mortem.

there aren't thousands of bodies hidden - there aren't that many people.

giphy.gif
 
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