Wielding Jehovah's Cyclocross Battleaxe

[Norm]

splain please. trying to think of a scenario where that could happen. can't.

S in this stands for second. A theoretical power dataset:

S1: 1000 watts
S2: 1 watt
S3: 1 watt
...
S60: 1 watt
S61: 1 watt
S62: 1000 watts

In this data set you have the following 3 critical powers:

60s is 1 watt (from S2-S61)
61s is 17.37 watts (from S1-S61 or S2-S62)
62s is 33.21 watts (from S1-S62)

The 1:02 power is higher because of the spikes at the ends. You move the 60 second window a hair back or forward, you lose a spike. The hill I did last night would actually fit this model, as there was a spike to start and a last spike to get over the hill.

This is a thought experiment, but it seems hard to believe this kind of thing could actually happen in the field, because I wasn't at 1 watt between the endpoint spikes. I was at 550w, which seems to make another 900w spike at the end hard to believe. But this is what Strava says and the Internet never lies, does it?

 

[clarkenstein]

I was at 550w, which seems to make another 900w spike at the end hard to believe. But this is what Strava says and the Internet never lies, does it?

never lies.

i doubted my first thought that it could be timing. guess i shouldn't have. if the hill got steeper, and you accelerated on that increase in grade, i guess power goes up if it were right at the end.

or its just the internet.

if i didn't need (want) a newer mountain bike, and didn't just have my garage doors fixed and have new openers installed, i would invest in a power thing just for math.

 

[soulchild]

Without thinking about it, wouldn't your power be higher if the grade increased over the duration of the segment?

If you're climbing a 7% grade for 30 seconds which then pitches up to 12%, wouldn't it be fair to say that your average power would be higher over 1:03 than 1:00 because you climbed an extra 3 seconds at a steeper grade which requires more power than say the first 3 seconds of the segment at a lesser grade?

 

[clarkenstein]

Without thinking about it, wouldn't your power be higher if the grade increased over the duration of the segment?

If you're climbing a 7% grade for 30 seconds which then pitches up to 12%, wouldn't it be fair to say that your average power would be higher over 1:03 than 1:00 because you climbed an extra 3 seconds at a steeper grade which requires more power than say the first 3 seconds of the segment at a lesser grade?

if grade increases, and you maintain your current speed, your power should show an increase. if you increase speed over the course of an increase in grade, then your power would spike. if you slow on the grade increase, no extra power necessarily, and maybe you'll show a temporary loss in power depending on the mood of the internet.

 

[soulchild]

if grade increases, and you maintain your current speed, your power should show an increase. if you increase speed over the course of an increase in grade, then your power would spike. if you slow on the grade increase, no extra power necessarily, and maybe you'll show a temporary loss in power depending on the mood of the internet.

The assumption in my example, for the sake of simplicity for those following along, is that the only variable that changes is the grade in which case the longer segment would result in a higher power output when the additional 3 seconds were averaged in.

I just wanted to use that gif. Let's get back to talking about shit holes.

 

[capedoc]

Doesn't the seller of the house have to eat that 40 G's?

And green color was picked at random. Or so I think. Maybe it was subconscious decision.

 

[1speed]

Norm - it's statistically unlikely, but not impossible. Is it possible that you started your full effort after the start of the "official" segment? I thought through a whole explanation of how that would work, but it just seems simpler to ask what may be a dumb question: is it possible it's just noise created by the discrepancy between where you and Strava recorded an invisible line?

 

[Mountain Bike Mike]

OMG 27lb cross bike? What the hell you riding?

my bike. i think.

This inspired the name of my cross bike - Bertha... Not sure why but that is the name that came to mind... My cross bike is now "Bertha",, Thanks Norm for the blog that allowed us to rant about stuff that has nothing to do with your blog. Thanks STD and Clarkstain for the inspiration.

 

[Norm]

Utah said to me: you can't explain power to people. I try.

Lou - in your example, no. The 1:03 average would not be higher than the best (that's the keyword there) 1:00 average. Again, data points modelling a constant speed over a linearly increasing grade:

S1: 1w
S2: 2w
S3: 3w
...
S61: 61w
S62: 62w
S63: 63w

Your 60 second power from S1-S60 is lower than the S1-S63 power. But the 60 second power from S4-S63 is higher than the total 1:03 power.

The only way it works is for there to be power spikes at the end points which are outside the 1 minute time range. Given that I hit the gas to start and stood at the end, it's not impossible.

Or Martin is right and this is noise, though I don't know if I will be able to sleep at night knowing that Strava is not 100% accurate.

The Break

The old cesspool has been pumped and smashed as of this morning. They're putting in the new tank this afternoon. As soon as the old one was put to pasture I had to crap. So the toilet is now serving as my bucket.

More than that, do you know how hard it is not to run the water at all?

The owner split it with us so we bought the house for $20k less in the end.

The Break

Yesterday I did the 6:Murder workout which is hell. It goes like this:

6 intervals of 2 minutes, 1 minute between each
5 minutes rest
6 by 1 minute, 1 minute between each
5 minutes rest
6 by 30 seconds, 1 minute between each

Then soft pedal home at 10.9 mph. Literally. This one hurts like hell, especially the 30s.

The 1s and 2s are just so far off any CP1 and CP2 numbers, I'm not sure how much they really help develop that power. This workout is really more aimed at making you hurt like hell and just keep going at it. These kinds of workouts show me I'm not back to my previous form yet, but getting closer. I used to be able to do this and I feel like I used to be able to give more. Yesterday was hard. I was able to keep at it but in the end, my power went to crap.

The Break

Today is whatever, no formal workout. Probably take the CX bike out and make sure the chainring bolts don't pop out. And see if the creak is gone.

On that note, the new frame creaks insanely much. This is disconcerting. Possible options are the rear wheel, the cranks, the BB, or the chainring bolts again. Well I guess there are other options but I don't think it's the seat tube. I was able to produce this awful noise out of the saddle.

I hate when this stuff happens. It's mind-numbing how fickle these bikes can be at times. Maybe I need a cement bike.

The Break

Whirlybird this Saturday, but we can't do Cooper River. Kids weekend so 1 race is hard enough to swing.

The following weekend is a Toronto trip for us, so we miss both HPCX days.

After that we may actually try to do both Marty's races. But with the kids, you know, it gets hard.

And that's the October slate. November is after that, meaning our race. I tried to drum up some numbers for the race yesterday and in the end managed to get 15 more people to sign up, bringing us to 46. I'm concerned we're not going to be able to make ends meet for this one.

That is all.

 

[The Heckler]

I hate when this stuff happens. It's mind-numbing how fickle these bikes can be at times. Maybe I need a cement bike.

I think we need to get you on a steel bike with a standard threaded BB. All this press fit stuff creaks like hell and those big thin plastic tubes are like a drum head.

 

[UtahJoe]

Well you left out some of what i said....Its hard to explain the difference between actual power and pedal effort...this is where many people get confused. But I think Pearl now understands it, so im going to take back my statement.

I thought 6 murder involved tempo after all of the intervals? Whatever, I remember it totally sucking.

 

[mandi]

The numbers thing is straight over my head. I don't understand watt any of it means.

Thanks for the imagine of you shitting in a bucket though.

 

[Norm]

So the new bolts on the main cross bike stopped the creaking. I mean, it should have, the old ones were cracked. Well 1 was cracked and the other broke off entirely. So that was an obvious issue. The bolts are red. It's faster this way.

As for steel bikes, you may be right about the threaded BB. I'm afraid that the PF30 is what's causing the creak in the new road frame. I hate to say this, because it truly is a beautiful frame. But the bike doesn't really have a soul. You know what I mean? I feel like you, Heckler, would understand that. It's not a carbon thing, because all my other carbon frames have soul. But this frame is different. I feel like it hates me because I'm not 150 pounds or less. I feel like it's always plotting how to throw me off. Thankfully I weigh 65 times more than it does.

I've only ever had 1 steel frame and it eventually broke. Woody broke it but it broke. Wait, was that Mary steel too? I forgot about that. So I give all my steel frames to Woody? Does he break them all? Why does Woody hate steel?

The Magic Bike was carbon. The Magic Bike had soul. Like buckets of soul.

The Blorf

I quote Utah from the chat, "explaining power numbers to the general public is impossible"

I know your brain is broken, so it's ok. I get it.

JP texted me a picture of Golden Cheetah the other day and said he didn't get it. It's far too early to get it. When you get it, you see the futility in it all. Sort of like realizing just how many stars there are in the universe. Similarly, when you finally set your CP60 power in real life then read about the TdF guy who has an FTP 100w more than you and weighs 50 pounds less.

When it makes sense, then it makes absolutely no sense.

The Murder workout is just intervals, 18 of them. Then you limp home. I think the point is to totally tire you out with the first 12, then do 30 second sprints with inadequate rest at the end. Big efforts while tired. Something like that.

Yes it sucks.

The Blorf

Buckets, we're back to that. The new tank is in but today they're replacing the pipe from the house to the tank. So right now, the toilet is on the shelf so to speak. Well I could flush it and fill their trench with sewage.

I still have to ride today. In theory it's a "tune-up" but I don't like tune-ups. I wanted to run yesterday after my ride but didn't get back from north jersey until 6:30 so that didn't happen. I'm not running today because I have a race tomorrow. My 35+ class is getting smaller. I fear that it's not the killer class that it used to be. Or maybe the slower guys are quitting faster. Or maybe it's because this venue is not amazing.

Anyway, I need to ride but don't want to until I know I can get home and take a shower. While the temps are cooler now, it makes the post-ride shower one of the best feelings in the world.

We're making pizzas for dinner tonight.

I have never been to Spain.

 

[Dominique]

In Spain,

I've been to the Guggenheim Museum in Balbao

and to San Sebastian:

Absolutely amazing... I would love to go again...😀

 

[stb222]

Yes, PF30 bb is probably source of your problem and there are all kinds of tricks to quiet them down and in all cases it means you should take you bike to a shop to have them do it, even if you did buy whatever special tool.

I am not sure the EVO has any less soul than your super six, i mean, the EVO is the super six's leaner, meaner sibling. Really any mass produced bike doesnt have a soul as it has not story of it's own. That includes mass produced steel bikes. If you have a custom steel or carbon bike, there is more story or "soul" there.

When it comes down to it, the rider is who gives the bikes soul and peep seem to think that just because someone owned a bike and they did xyz on it the next person who buys it inherits that soul. I think this is false and is simply a selling gimmick.

I also noticed that people think that cheap steel is going to give you a "steel is real ride". The mary is cheap steel, the Niner maybe a notch above.

 

[Pearl]

i loved my mary doe. maybe im just into that cheap shit? :hmmm:

 

[Mountain Bike Mike]

Bikes have personalities

Bikes have personalities that need to match their rider. When buying a new bike, there is a greater chance of the bike's and rider's personalities molding and changing to match each other. Buying a used bike - its a crapshoot especially if the previous rider was way radder in the eyes of the bike. That said, when you ride the used bike less rad than the previous owner, you will find yourself getting bucked off for no reason and things don't seem to flow well. it will fight you! I have several real life examples of this but they are related to dirtbikes.

Now - if you buy a used bike and you ride it way radder than the previous owner, the bike will show you the love.

I can't believe I just typed that - Oh well.. I'm nutz and I don't care who knows it. You call it soul, I call it personality.

 

[soulchild]

But the bike doesn't really have a soul. You know what I mean?

The Magic Bike was carbon. The Magic Bike had soul. Like buckets of soul.

I am not sure the EVO has any less soul than your super six

If you have a custom steel or carbon bike, there is more story or "soul" there.

When it comes down to it, the rider is who gives the bikes soul

 

[clarkenstein]

When it comes down to it, the rider is who gives the bikes soul

I also noticed that people think that cheap steel is going to give you a "steel is real ride". The mary is cheap steel, the Niner maybe a notch above.

i loved my mary doe. maybe im just into that cheap shit? :hmmm:

yes and yes.

i "miss" one of my mountain bikes and i think i figured out why after riding my roadie. my first single speed mountain bike was one of my favorites. cheap and heavy (specialized hotrock). i traded it to M3Tim for his brother/friend for some beer i think? i know someone on here frankenbiked it to get someone out. hopefully its still being ridden. if its not, i'd buy it back and keep it this time.

my SS roadie (cheap steel thing) is my "favorite" bike right now. fits perfectly, rides great, relatively dependable and has "soul" even though its about as mass produced as a bike can get. whenever i'm in a group ride it becomes a topic of discussion.

bike with soul: noun; its the bike that i was riding when i went from one "stage" of riding to another.

i have zero idea if i know the steel is real thing. i had a niner MCR. flexy. real flexy. reynolds is flexy.

 

[Steve Vai]

Thank you for reminding me why I took the power meters off all of my bikes.

PS-I have some power meters for sale if anyone wants to enjoy math during their bike rides 😀

-Jim.