Another Cyclist Murdered

Johnny Utah said:
Not here. But will note the police also pulled a gun on me, twice. And the FBI had a helicopter overhead. 911 also directed me to the wrong police department.

The “perp” got ten years in Trenton State. I got a paid day off.
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Sounds like a story worth listening to...
 
jShort said:
This is hilarious to me. Maybe that was case when the second amendment was written, but like most laws written at this time, it’s totally out dated and unrealistic.

Do you honestly think that a group of armed citizens is any match for the government and their fire power?
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I used to (and mostly still do) believe the same as you.

But there's a case to be made that armed citizenry can keep away tyranny to a certain extent.

The military is still formed of the people, so they or portions of them may be part of the people fighting the tyranny. Could be soldiers who left the military, or state militias going against the government.

And the government is made up of people, many of those who don't want to get shot. Policies can be different if the populace can turn on you.

But it all depends on where we would end up in people-vs-government. There's that response Biden from 2021 had w/ regards to the 2nd Amendment being stupid because the government has F-15s and atomic weapons. Sure the people may not be able to shoot down F-15s bombing them, but they can defend/fight against FBI/ATF agents with rifles.

Maybe not very successfully, but some of the tyranny may be held back. A few crazy people with guns vs the entire US Government isn't the only use case.
 
jShort said:
This is hilarious to me. Maybe that was case when the second amendment was written, but like most laws written at this time, it’s totally out dated and unrealistic.

Do you honestly think that a group of armed citizens is any match for the government and their fire power?
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Yes, I do. And I think if the government ordered troops and leos to attack disarm citizens a lot would refuse. Having served both in the military and as a Leo I took an oath to uphold the constitution. I would not have obeyed that order. I still have many friends in law enforcement that agree.
 
Great 2A riffs above, but amateurs compared to the MTBR.com crowd

Two questions:

What country has the most gun crime?

What country has the most guns?
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TJYeti said:
Yes, I do. And I think if the government ordered troops and leos to attack disarm citizens a lot would refuse. Having served both in the military and as a Leo I took an oath to uphold the constitution. I would not have obeyed that order. I still have many friends in law enforcement that agree.
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Leo...it always gets me! LOL
 
Johnny Utah said:
How is driving not a political issue?

- the price of gas
- emissions from cars
- the push to go “green” with electric cars that are arguably not “green”
- the lack of national infrastructure for electric cars
- The costs to ship goods as well as rights for those in the transportation industry
- cash for clunkers and strict emissions standards that have taken away affordable cars as well as cars the average person can work on
- Artifical Intelligence replacing human driving

I would say driving an automobile is a political issue. Over the last ten years the government has increased the costs of owning and operating a car. It is becoming a reach for those less fortunate to own and operate an automobile.

In addition, due to stricter guns laws as well as other issues, criminals are now committing mass murder with automobiles and trucks - are we going to outlaw vehicles now? How many parades have had a terrorist attack with a vehicle?

The picture of the cyclist carrying shows the rider committing a crime (if it were NJ but I don’t think it is). The rider is clearing carrying “open” which is not legal in NJ.
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Oh come on, during every election cycle it’s race, abortion, guns, and LBGTQ rights. Driving is/has never been one of the polarizing political issues that all the talking heads and stuffed suits preach to us about.

tonyride said:
Do I think a group of armed citizens is any match against the federal government? No.
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Don’t know about that, I think 40M armed citizens would make any future dictator/despot think twice. Although, none of the folks that I know in the military or Federal Law Enforcement would ever even consider turning their weapons on their fellow citizens or neighbors. Most are pro-gun because they know exactly what type of trash is lurking out there amongst us.
serviceguy said:
Wrong question. What country has the most murders compared to number of guns?
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The US doesn’t even make the top 10.

Mahnken said:
Which country has the most accidental gun deaths?
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Which country has the highest rate of pool/spa drownings? Number one cause of death in the US amongst children 1-4. Don’t you love the kids? We should ban pools!
Johnny Utah said:
Ask the people of Vietnam or Afghanistan.
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What was the first thing that Stalin and Hitler did? They disarmed the population.
 
Mahnken said:
Which country has the most accidental gun deaths?
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I don't see the point of the question. Accidental gun deaths on average is less than 500 annually. That's with estimated 434 million firearms in civilian possession in the US. According to NHTSA the number of traffic fatalities for 2021 in the US is nearly 43,000, a 10.5% increase from the year before. That's with 291 million cars in the US. More people die each year from boating accidents than accidental gun deaths. According to your logic we need to ban cars and boats. Doesn't take much effort to google those numbers. Do a little bit of research before making accusations.
 
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jShort said:
This is hilarious to me. Maybe that was case when the second amendment was written, but like most laws written at this time, it’s totally out dated and unrealistic.

Do you honestly think that a group of armed citizens is any match for the government and their fire power?
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If it wasn't an issue they wouldn't be trying so hard to disarm law-abiding citizens.

I point to Afghanistan and both Russia's experience and our own in fighting "goat herders" with the might of modern technology vs. plain Jane AKs and guerrilla warfare tactics.
 
serviceguy said:
not being able to support whatever statement they made or believe is often the case.
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There's no point in debating gun rights with those who support gun rights. Doesn't matter what you say, it'll never change their minds. I don't care about anyone having guns, you do you. I don't want them in my house, I don't want my kids to visit friends whose parents have guns in their houses. I've never personally met anyone that has saved themselves or family members with a gun. As a psych nurse, I've met plenty that have ruined their lives with one.
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