Tariffs...what to make of them.

dvaidya said:
SS is the biggest ponzi scheme
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I know on paper it sure looks like one...but really (and these are not necessarily good reasons, but reasons).....Ponzi schemes fail when new investors can't supply enough enough money to keep the current ones paid...or something happens in the market and every investor wants out......Nobody is allowed to cash out of SS....the govt. can simply raise the taxes on it if they need more money...and of course at the end of the day...they just make up more money by printing it. Charles Ponzi couldn't dream of all of those tricks lol.
 
SmooveP said:
So you'll decline to file for benefits when it's your turn out of principle, right?
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Why should I decline after paying into it? I am not that principle 😁. I rather the government let me manage my own retirement money instead of making it mandatory to pay into it. That applies to both parties.

Plus, by the time i am ready to retire i will be lucky to see anything.
 
UtahJoe said:
I know on paper it sure looks like one...but really (and these are not necessarily good reasons, but reasons).....Ponzi schemes fail when new investors can't supply enough enough money to keep the current ones paid...or something happens in the market and every investor wants out......Nobody is allowed to cash out of SS....the govt. can simply raise the taxes on it if they need more money...and of course at the end of the day...they just make up more money by printing it. Charles Ponzi couldn't dream of all of those tricks lol.
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Sure no one is allowed to cash out but as you said we will just raise taxes to meet the demand or change the retirement date for you to qualify for full payment.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I thought it was awesome. This guy has been front and center, constantly answering questions and letting you know what he is doing daily. Compared to the last administration the transparency has been great - Biden rarely spoke and was on vacation over 30% of his term - Biden’s detail traveled with him while he is there - so how is that any different?

It’s nice to hear a positive message from politicians in America - like what I grew up with in the 80’s. The last four years the message many Americans received was that were are a country of ignorant racists. That went well in the last election from Biden who was the “Unifier in Chief”.

You may not like the message, content or delivery - but a lot of people do. He was elected by people that wanted this.

Government is bloated and inefficient - keep the cuts coming.

Let’s see what happens in two years.

Even better - let’s see what happens in NJ in November.
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Ok so I don't fault you for getting excited seeing your president at every sporting event....fine...But then government is Government is "bloated and inefficient" (I agree completely, I just don't think we are going about fixing it the right way, but anyway) ....have you ever seen what it costs for a president to fly anywhere? AF1 alone costs almost $200,000 an hour to operate....another 2 c-17s usually go...1 filled with the limos and armored SUVs for the president and SS....then another with all kinds of support stuff....even fuel trucks. The cost per hour for the president to go anywhere is fucking mind blowing....So to me...stay in the white house and get your work done.....Remind me of when our CEO comes to our office via private jet to talk about our stock price.....Thanks...how about you just pay us more instead.



Johnny Utah said:
The syrup being racist was a bit much. It seems racism can be found in anything these days.
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Im not going to sit here and tell you that I thought much about it before they changed it...but when they did change it....it did cause me to read about the history of the name, etc....ya, I think a bunch of white businessmen naming their syrup/using the likeness of a former slave....I can see why Pepsi decided to change it. Its syrup, its not stone mountain in Georgia.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I thought it was awesome. This guy has been front and center, constantly answering questions and letting you know what he is doing daily. Compared to the last administration the transparency has been great - Biden rarely spoke and was on vacation over 30% of his term - Biden’s detail traveled with him while he is there - so how is that any different?

It’s nice to hear a positive message from politicians in America - like what I grew up with in the 80’s. The last four years the message many Americans received was that were are a country of ignorant racists. That went well in the last election from Biden who was the “Unifier in Chief”.

You may not like the message, content or delivery - but a lot of people do. He was elected by people that wanted this.

Government is bloated and inefficient - keep the cuts coming.

Let’s see what happens in two years.

Even better - let’s see what happens in NJ in November.
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The problem is what the are cutting, food inspectors, mine inspectors, government agencies that protect the people from sole less corporations. All those agencies that make sure your air liner gets its maintenance, the bridge you drive over doesn’t fall down. All the things you depend on can be taken away.
 
dvaidya said:
Why should I decline after paying into it? I am not that principle 😁. I rather the government let me manage my own retirement money instead of making it mandatory to pay into it. That applies to both parties.

Plus, by the time i am ready to retire i will be lucky to see anything.
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The problem with that rationale is that most Americans are not forward thinking enough to save for their retirement. Here's how much the average person has in retirement savings:
  • As of 2022, the median household retirement savings for Americans under age 35 is $18,000.
  • As of 2022, the median household retirement savings for Americans ages 65-74 is $200,000.
  • In 2022, the average (median) retirement savings for American households was $87,000.
  • The recommended retirement savings at age 40 is 3X annual income.
  • As of 2024, 25% of American non-retirees have no retirement savings.
Why is that your problem? Well, I'd say it becomes everybody's problem when millions of old people become homeless.

Our collective inability to plan for the future is the same reason why no action has been taken to fix SS. I expect that "something" will happen when the fund actually starts running out of money.
 
UtahJoe said:
Ok so I don't fault you for getting excited seeing your president at every sporting event....fine...But then government is Government is "bloated and inefficient" (I agree completely, I just don't think we are going about fixing it the right way, but anyway) ....have you ever seen what it costs for a president to fly anywhere? AF1 alone costs almost $200,000 an hour to operate....another 2 c-17s usually go...1 filled with the limos and armored SUVs for the president and SS....then another with all kinds of support stuff....even fuel trucks. The cost per hour for the president to go anywhere is fucking mind blowing....So to me...stay in the white house and get your work done.....Remind me of when our CEO comes to our office via private jet to talk about our stock price.....Thanks...how about you just pay us more instead.
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It is expensive, I agree. But Pennies in comparison to many other things in the country.

He is totally shaking things up right now, but he is out front and answering questions not only on the most televised political shows, but also the most televised sporting events.

There are a lot of people that don’t watch any of the political junk - they are flying blind. Some of those people watch NASCAR, some NFL some both. Now they are seeing their president. It is smart on his part. Especially for someone that called Biden out for “Hiding in the Basement”

If he didn’t Rachel Madow would be screaming he is hiding as Elon burns the country down.
 
UtahJoe said:
Im not going to sit here and tell you that I thought much about it before they changed it...but when they did change it....it did cause me to read about the history of the name, etc....ya, I think a bunch of white businessmen naming their syrup/using the likeness of a former slave....I can see why Pepsi decided to change it. Its syrup, its not stone mountain in Georgia.
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I am still waiting for George Washington to be canceled - when I toured his home in DC I remember the Slave quarters - tisk tisk. It’s funny how we pick and choose who is in the wrong and who is not.
 
SmooveP said:
The problem with that rationale is that most Americans are not forward thinking enough to save for their retirement. Here's how much the average person has in retirement savings:
  • As of 2022, the median household retirement savings for Americans under age 35 is $18,000.
  • As of 2022, the median household retirement savings for Americans ages 65-74 is $200,000.
  • In 2022, the average (median) retirement savings for American households was $87,000.
  • The recommended retirement savings at age 40 is 3X annual income.
  • As of 2024, 25% of American non-retirees have no retirement savings.
Why is that your problem? Well, I'd say it becomes everybody's problem when millions of old people become homeless.

Our collective inability to plan for the future is the same reason why no action has been taken to fix SS. I expect that "something" will happen when the fund actually starts running out of money.
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I so not want millions of people to be homeless but every adult needs to learn how to manage money properly. Do not spend money on what you want vs need.

I also realize that a lot of folks struggle daily just to provide for immediate needs. I just want an option to opt out plus the other thing that I have hard time accepting is why am I being taxed on SS. If you are going to tax me on SS and retirement funds let me manage my own and tax me when I take money out of retirement.

I just looked at my SS estimate and the difference between starting SS payment at 62 vs 67 could be considered huge if you did not have anything other savings but the break even point between the two is around 80.
 
SmooveP said:
  • In 2022, the average (median) retirement savings for American households was $87,000.
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One point of clarity.

The mean is the average. Median is not the same thing. Median is the point in a range for which half the sample is below and above. So, if Sieg Musk has $88 billion put away for retirement, that would affect the mean more than the median. In the latter case, the $88BB would be just one more data point in the 'above' part.
 
scott62 said:
The problem is what the are cutting, food inspectors, mine inspectors, government agencies that protect the people from sole less corporations. All those agencies that make sure your air liner gets its maintenance, the bridge you drive over doesn’t fall down. All the things you depend on can be taken away.
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F*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck can’t believe I’m letting myself get into this discussion but I do have a serious question (not targeting ur post directly @scott62 it’s just that urs is most recent on this topic). Can’t argue that such fast and aggressive cost cutting is going to lead to some negative outcomes.

BUT, unless I missed it, is there seriously no one here outraged at all the legitimate mismanagement of our tax dollars that’s been uncovered and at the same time relieved this things are being rooted out?

That said, dis me exiting this convo:

5F2FD2FA-23B2-40C1-8115-D03210A5054E.gif
 
rjr44 said:
F*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck can’t believe I’m letting myself get into this discussion but I do have a serious question (not targeting ur post directly @scott62 it’s just that urs is most recent on this topic). Can’t argue that such fast and aggressive cost cutting is going to lead to some negative outcomes.

BUT, unless I missed it, is there seriously no one here outraged at all the legitimate mismanagement of our tax dollars that’s been uncovered and at the same time relieved this things are being rooted out?

That said, dis me exiting this convo:

View attachment 255671
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rjr44 said:
F*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck can’t believe I’m letting myself get into this discussion but I do have a serious question (not targeting ur post directly @scott62 it’s just that urs is most recent on this topic). Can’t argue that such fast and aggressive cost cutting is going to lead to some negative outcomes.

BUT, unless I missed it, is there seriously no one here outraged at all the legitimate mismanagement of our tax dollars that’s been uncovered and at the same time relieved this things are being rooted out?

That said, dis me exiting this convo:

View attachment 255671
Click to expand...
IMG_6667.jpeg

I am furious about it - I am getting the feeling that even talking DOGE in this thread will shut it down.

With that being said, I find the comments about the cost for Trump to travel to the Daytona 500 humorous to say the least!
 
dvaidya said:
I just looked at my SS estimate and the difference between starting SS payment at 62 vs 67 could be considered huge if you did not have anything other savings but the break even point between the two is around 80.
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this is one of those things they don't tell you.
If you earn any significant money while collecting SS before Full Retirement Age, they decrease your benefit significantly during that year.

Benefits Planner: Retirement | Receiving Benefits While Working | SSA

You can receive Social Security retirement or survivors benefits and work at the same time. However, if you are younger than full retirement age and earn more than certain amounts, your benefits will be reduced.
www.ssa.gov www.ssa.gov

This is all actuarial science - and since I just picked up my YT PHD in this as I will be collecting next year, it is good to know.

also:
if people keep living longer, they need to do something (COVID actually helped SS)
if salaries don't grow with inflation they need to do something
if the population contracts instead of expands they need to do something
your employer matches your SS deduction, and your employer doesn't stop contributing when the worker hits the SS limit.
everyone pays - even if they won't be eligible. (F1 practical training visas are exempt - as are H2A)
higher earners have to start paying in again at a certain income level. (this expired a few years ago - they are talking $400k as the new restart level)

this gets back to my finance thread post on getting to $1M saved - which could safely throw off $4,000+/month in retirement -
most people can't do it. they just can't. unseen payroll deductions are the way. what if 1 out of 10 opt-outs fail?
are you going to say TFB? they'll just steal your food to eat, and your money to pay their cell phone.

all the gvt needs to do to make it work is tweak numbers. Actuarial science. go figure.
 
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