Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
It doesn't and you probably are...
Biscotti Madness
- Thread starter Norm
- Start date
It doesn't and you probably are...
Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
Well, the forks are the same, right? F29?
So other than the frame, the only *big* difference is the wheels between Norm's SIR9 and One9.
How are you forks set up on each bike? Both the same pressure? Same rebound setting? Or if you have an RLC, same compression setting? One thing that took me a solid month to get just right on my paragon was the fork settings. Fox's setting for my weight were totally awful, IMO. I starting bring my shock pump with me and adjusting it.
How about your front tire pressure? same?
I already have 2 bikes that I can use, both can be setup SS. Since the SS is currently the faster one, the ideal here would be to make the steel frame as fast as the scandium, not the other way around.
I assume the Air9 is the geared version of the One9?
No? What is it intended for? I thought this was supposed to be for racing. Actually, at the time I was going from FS to HT, so steel made more sense. Maybe not as much now?
Did Ben plant this? Are you setting him up? Ok, ok, fine. Have your fun...
Same wheels. Same post. Same bars. Same cranks. Same fork. Same headset. Same pedals.
I honestly have no idea about the forks. Each seems to be entirely different from the other. The dials seem to have different ranges. I don't get on one bike and think the front end feels softer/stiffer than the other. I just ride, and pay little attention to them, to be honest.
PSI was 23-ish on the SS, 24-ish today until a blew out the rear tire. Then I put a tube in and blew it way up because I didn't want a pinch flat. The ride suffered because of that because I felt like I was getting on a pogo stick/jack hammer. I took that into account, the front still felt wrong.
ChrisG
Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
OK, no one brought this up, so...
Is the reach from the back of the saddle to the center of the bar the same on both bikes? You've already mentioned that one stem has more rise, so I assume that one bike has less drop from saddle to bar.
The front end stability difference could easily be down to more/less forward weight bias on one bike. And I'm sure the Geax vs. Hutch has some palpable impact as well.
I doubt it's the frame material difference.
The SIR has slightly more relaxed geometry, but it's still no beach cruiser. There's no way that the geometry of that frame is holding you back, IMO.
Is the reach from the back of the saddle to the center of the bar the same on both bikes? You've already mentioned that one stem has more rise, so I assume that one bike has less drop from saddle to bar.
The front end stability difference could easily be down to more/less forward weight bias on one bike. And I'm sure the Geax vs. Hutch has some palpable impact as well.
I doubt it's the frame material difference.
The SIR has slightly more relaxed geometry, but it's still no beach cruiser. There's no way that the geometry of that frame is holding you back, IMO.
Well I will admit that im hyper-sensitive about my fork settings, probably from years of dirtbike racing. But Fox listed my F29 at 95psi for my weight. At that pressure, the bike felt AWFUL to me. Far too stiff. I gradually played with the pressure over time and found the magic for me was 70psi. At the same time adjusting the rebound (my paragon has an F29 RL and no compression adjustment) accordingly. But when my fork is off, it slows me down. It really effects my confidence. If someone was to move it to 80psi, it would drive me nuts. If I can't get the front wheel to track right or stick properly, it really slows me down on decents and though any kind of chop.
I would start by checking the pressure on your SS, and using that as a base setting for your geared bike. If you have say 50 psi in your SS and 100 in the geared bike, its going to feel totally different.
Thanks for playing along Chris.
From the point on the saddle where the post would intersect, it's the same. From the back of the saddle, one is about 1/2 longer.
I would need to measure relative bar heights to get an idea how much more stretched out I am on 1 versus the other.
I think the tires play *some* role, I just have no idea how much. The Geax tires do weigh more, which could actually help with stability. Joe was certainly on to something as well. When I went out to measure them, the SS has a pretty stiff fork, almost rigid with a bit of cushion. The geared bike is basically pudding. That plus the tires is an obvious first step to explore.
As do I, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not even able to get on the bikes and be able to tell 1 fork is the complete opposite setup as the other fork.
I agree, and my concern isn't that it's holding me back so much as it's the fact I have this really expensive bike that isn't as much fun to ride as I previously thought.
From the point on the saddle where the post would intersect, it's the same. From the back of the saddle, one is about 1/2 longer.
I would need to measure relative bar heights to get an idea how much more stretched out I am on 1 versus the other.
I think the tires play *some* role, I just have no idea how much. The Geax tires do weigh more, which could actually help with stability. Joe was certainly on to something as well. When I went out to measure them, the SS has a pretty stiff fork, almost rigid with a bit of cushion. The geared bike is basically pudding. That plus the tires is an obvious first step to explore.
As do I, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not even able to get on the bikes and be able to tell 1 fork is the complete opposite setup as the other fork.
I agree, and my concern isn't that it's holding me back so much as it's the fact I have this really expensive bike that isn't as much fun to ride as I previously thought.
Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
I dunno', man. I've never ridden one of the scandium bikes, but I have ridden the aluminum rig and the SIR9 (even with the exact same components on it). The SIR9 is *a lot* more compliant and you can feel it when corning hard.
I don't think the geometry is holding anybody back either. I don't necessarily think that the material is. It is about feel and confidence when jammin'. Based on my time on the Rig and SIR9 and years ago with the Stumpy, it isn't a shocker that in the scandium bike feels more planted when pushing it than the steel bike does.
They both do, actually. If I start measuring relative EBB rotation angles Ben may come to my house and literally kill me.
But....it's something else to consider 😉
Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
Get the setups (fork pressure, tires, saddle offset, etc.) the same and try it. Then, go buy an Air9 so I can keep living vicariously through you and your equipment purchases...I may have a job now, but I'm not at a point to start pissing money away on bike stuff myself....yet...so get to it! 😀
Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
Well, uh, if your SIR9 is in the recommended 6 o'clock position for geared setup and the One9 is near the 9 AM position (from the drive side) close to the end of it's adjustability, that is quite a bit. If not from a CG perspective, but from a saddle to crank relationship perspective. Your SIR9's cranks could be something like 3/4"-1" farther back and lower than your One9.
Fogerson
Former Resident Nerd
Whew! Thanks! I feel better.
BiknBen
Well-Known Member
No, I'll just go back to not reading this nonsense any more. Actually, boredom is the only reason I'm reading it now. 🙄
God, I hope you haven't overlooked something like the EBB rotation angle. Niner suggests a 6 o'clock position but I run mine at 12. I prefer the higher BB and better pedal/bashgaurd clearance. It is one aspect of a 29er that I really like. More clearance...Clarence!
you better not be serious and still be thinking about those 105 cranks.
EBB rotation angle is about the last thing I would think about. The geared bike is whatever Jay set it up as. The SS is 3 o'clock (drive side) because the chain is too long and I had to put it there to get the tension I needed for the 19t cog.
105? I think something was missed in the translation. I bought sram cranks when we did the team order. I may be trading them in for the BB30 stuff though.