Another Cyclist Murdered

From some of the comments in this thread, looks like corrupt politicians and dishonest media personalities still have a long future ahead of them. Let’s keep using their nonsensical talking points and hyperboles while bashing the next guy for saying anything that doesn’t exactly fit our mental mold of choice, however absurd, so they can keep prosper. You would think that between sort of like minded individuals that do not profit in any way from discussing politics on a public forum (well, other than the thrill of thinking they proved the next guy/gal wrong or ‘destroyed’ him/her on the public arena) it would be relatively easy to find some level of compromise that doesn’t require lowering to calling names or trying to ridicule…and you would be wrong. Ironically this thread started from a murder allegedly perpetrated by an accountant, a man of color, using a Lexus to run down a doctor, a white man riding a bike to work, and then finish him off with a knife. In a State with some very strict gun laws. While allegedly yelling about white privilege. Does this strike anybody as ironic giving the fact that it turned into the usual pointless debate on guns and race? Isn’t it evidence that we enter a discussion not to find a solution to a problem (like anybody cared) but rather push whatever is our thought on anything or regurgitate whatever notion we decided to adopt in absence of our own?
 
roc said:
Clearly the dumbest response ever. How the fuck do you trust someone you’ve never met? I‘ve had parents drop their kid off at my house and come in my house, and they were clearly looking to get the lay of the land. It didn’t bother me, why would it bother you? I guess you knew every parent that your kids went to a play date for the first time? By the way, one guy, neighbor down the street, had to go home and put all his guns away, because a bunch of us were going to his house after a parade in town. Jeez, you seem very angry. I’ll leave it at that.
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I’m dumb, really? So you just freely volunteer information about yourself to whoever asks? And I’m dumb? So how does it go, “hey, how are you, have any guns lying around?”. For the record, I DON’t trust someone I’ve never met. I’ve never sent my kids over to someone’s house who I didn’t develop some type of relationship or trust with. I’m not an ignorant rube.
 
Ironjunk said:
Are you allowed to carry while high or drunk?
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ATF Form 4473 – Firearms Transaction Record

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

Yes Answer = cannot purchase a firearm.
 
906E0434-D027-4947-9B1E-E75DBBBC435C.jpeg


This will get no mention, but a car was used to kill/maim. That gets a pass. If this were a gun the fodder cannon would be spewing. Do we need background checks to rent a van? Maybe a cool off period before you can leave the lot? Both things gun owners need.

Other question: so if you are asking parents if there is a gun in the house, what else do you ask about?

Drugs in the house? Sex offender? Cutlery? Unsecured power tools? I am being dead serious. If you are worried about a gun accident, what about other items? Do you ask about the child coming to your house? Is the child respectful? Nosey?

If I went snooping in someone’s house as a kid I think I was more fearful of what I would face when I got home.

My parents raised me to respect a lot of dangerous items, guns, chemicals, hot items, power tools. I stayed away from them - but I was aware of what they were.

Seems people may rely on others to do the parenting for them.

I strongly back the idea that we have an attitude/mental issue in this country. People do not want to take responsibility or be pro-active. Probably driven by the consumer mentality, the customer is always right as long as they are spending.

The last two times I was almost struck by a car I was in a cross walk and had the right of way - both times the offender went off on me like it was my fault. People are clueless now. It is a “me” society.
 
serviceguy said:
From some of the comments in this thread, looks like corrupt politicians and dishonest media personalities still have a long future ahead of them. Let’s keep using their nonsensical talking points and hyperboles while bashing the next guy for saying anything that doesn’t exactly fit our mental mold of choice, however absurd, so they can keep prosper. You would think that between sort of like minded individuals that do not profit in any way from discussing politics on a public forum (well, other than the thrill of thinking they proved the next guy/gal wrong or ‘destroyed’ him/her on the public arena) it would be relatively easy to find some level of compromise that doesn’t require lowering to calling names or trying to ridicule…and you would be wrong. Ironically this thread started from a murder allegedly perpetrated by an accountant, a man of color, using a Lexus to run down a doctor, a white man riding a bike to work, and then finish him off with a knife. In a State with some very strict gun laws. While allegedly yelling about white privilege. Does this strike anybody as ironic giving the fact that it turned into the usual pointless debate on guns and race? Isn’t it evidence that we enter a discussion not to find a solution to a problem (like anybody cared) but rather push whatever is our thought on anything or regurgitate whatever notion we decided to adopt in absence of our own?
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Word.

1676844497641.gif
 
For S&G’s I figured I would go over the quick 1-2 of what it would take to purchase a handgun in NJ from what I remember - this applies for a new gun owner/initial permit.

1. Apply for a NJ Purchasers card
- need two sources to fill out background check on you. Depending on your municipality these individuals may need to go to the PD department and be interviewed and have their statements taken in person.
- need to be finger printed - performed by third party - yet if you get arrested you are printed on site
- Both State and Fed perform Background checks
- need to obtain passport photo for your id - performed by third party yet DMV will take your photo for license on site
- this process takes 3-6 months depending on your PD. Some take longer. The whole process is “supposed” to take 3-4 weeks

- Pistol permit - essentially you need to do everything above all over - even if running concurrently - references need to fill out new forms. You can apply for a pistol permit at the same time as your purchasers card.
- only allowed two pistol permits at a time.
- only allowed to use one pistol permit a month - so you can buy one handgun every 30 days
- once you get your permits in again you fill out new background forms - again - this ensures no infractions between your last purchase or initial purchasers card
- once you fill out forms the state/fed run background checks again - this takes about. Week.
- once clear you can pickup your handgun.

So in NJ you are looking at 3.5 to 6.5 months to purchase one handgun.

In banking we know the bank is a target to be robbed, so we just make it more attractive/easier to rob somewhere else. I think we have done that with guns. This are easier alternatives if you intend to do harm.

You can illegally by a gun in Newark today. In addition you can LEGALLY buy a digital printer and the program to make youR own gun at home - TODAY.

The anti gun group are arguing things they solved thirty years ago. There are a lot of new problems they have failed to stop.

By no means am I saying we should reduce /remove laws. But how much more are you going to add? What other industries apply to this thinking?

Gangs/ghost guns - that is a serious issue that needs regulation. You can legally print real weapons of war in your home - fully automatic machine guns - these are not available to an NJ purchaser unless they have a Federal Firearms license - very hard to get. Once you have that license you are open to search and seizure at any point with it without your consent.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
I’m dumb, really? So you just freely volunteer information about yourself to whoever asks? And I’m dumb? So how does it go, “hey, how are you, have any guns lying around?”. For the record, I DON’t trust someone I’ve never met. I’ve never sent my kids over to someone’s house who I didn’t develop some type of relationship or trust with. I’m not an ignorant rube.
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I don’t know why I’m arguing with my screen, but, you’re friends with all your kids friends parents. OK, then you’re amazing. You know what, you’ve changed my mind, I’m a fucking idiot.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Other question: so if you are asking parents if there is a gun in the house, what else do you ask about?

Drugs in the house? Sex offender? Cutlery? Unsecured power tools? I am being dead serious. If you are worried about a gun accident, what about other items? Do you ask about the child coming to your house? Is the child respectful?
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like I said, I got a few weird looks, but I didn’t ask about sex offender. Maybe I should have?

I didn’t ask shit about the kid coming to my house.

I am guessing you own guns, would you really give a shit if a parent asked if they were secure? Why would that bother anybody? I don’t get the big anger about that.

as far as weed, booze, unsecured power tools, it never occurred to me. Actually good points
 
clarkenstein said:
I think right now yes. I believe those areas weren’t struck down immediately like a few others were. I am far from an authority on this though so I could be wrong.
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@clarkenstein @Mtbdog
I'm generally avoiding this thread as it seems to be a bit of a dumpster fire.....but relative to this item I saw some articles stating the judge that issued the original restraining order extended it to more places at the end of January specifically including parks and recreation areas as legal (part of the restraining order). A quick google and I found a link. I'm not taking a position here, just sharing as its better to know whats current I guess.

newjerseymonitor.com

Firearm fans score another victory in fight to block N.J.'s new gun ban - New Jersey Monitor

A federal judge Monday expanded where people can carry guns in N.J. in the ongoing bid to block a new state ban on guns in sensitive places.
newjerseymonitor.com newjerseymonitor.com
 
roc said:
like I said, I got a few weird looks, but I didn’t ask about sex offender. Maybe I should have?

I didn’t ask shit about the kid coming to my house.

I am guessing you own guns, would you really give a shit if a parent asked if they were secure? Why would that bother anybody? I don’t get the big anger about that.

as far as weed, booze, unsecured power tools, it never occurred to me. Actually good points
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I do not have kids, but I do lock my stuff up when company/children are present.

To be honest, I think I would be hesitant to provide info (yet openly discuss here🤔) as an acquaintance had kids from their sons school over to recreate for the day. The parents of the guest children did ask if there were firearms in the house, long story short a few weeks down the road the guest children’s parents were incredibly anti-gun while the hosts were not. In some sort of school/online drama this made its way to the authorities at the school in which the anti-gun parents questioned the way the firearms were secured - which then led to a search/wellness check by the local police department as well as the drama the kids in the school had to go through as the gun owners were made to look like the Manson Group by what was a majority of anti-gun staff. No arrests or citations were made.

So while it seems very simple to just comply, if someone who is not well versed or does not have a grounded opinion based on fact wants to raise a red flag based on opinion, there are consequences by complying with a simple request.
 
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Captain Brainstorm said:
I’m dumb, really? So you just freely volunteer information about yourself to whoever asks? And I’m dumb? So how does it go, “hey, how are you, have any guns lying around?”. For the record, I DON’t trust someone I’ve never met. I’ve never sent my kids over to someone’s house who I didn’t develop some type of relationship or trust with. I’m not an ignorant rube.
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Hmm... when I was growing up, I don't think my parents knew the parents of 90% of my friends or their parents and I was at their houses all the time. But I think it the 70's and 80's, it just wasn't thought about that much.

I'm also reminded of one of the last times I went trick-or-treating. We went to one of the townhouse apartments in my complex and for some reason we stepped inside and the tenant had an H-K 91 hanging on the wall. He was impressed because I immediately recognized it at 13. My father is a military historian, so I grew up reading about guns despite not being a "shooting culture" household, although my father did have a few in the house. Never secured, but never kept loaded.

To me, part of the problem with changing regulations about guns in the US is the shear scope of the situation. There are so many in this country that any changes in regulations will take years if not decades to really have an effect, which will serve only to annoy everyone on both sides of the argument because neither side will get what they want. Personally, I would like to see a reworking of the NFA, creating something similar to how other countries handle gun ownership.

I was at a meet-and-greet with Ian McCollum of Forgotten Weapons last week and one thing he mentioned was how wild the difference in prices are for full-auto guns in Europe. Because the license to own a full-auto guns is so difficult to get (and varies a lot by country), the actual price of the guns is really low - there is more supply than demand. Conversely, here in the US, anyone who can pass a background check to buy one, pay the $200 transfer fee, and own one (local regulations notwithstanding), and thus prices for some can approach or exceed 6-figures. And because the Registry was closed in 1968, supply is pretty much fixed and demand keeps growing among collectors. Conversely, in Europe, in many countries if you find an old SMG from WW2 in grandpa's closet, it's not a big deal to get it registered and then be able to sell it. If that happens in the US, and grandpa never got it registered (or lost the paperwork), then it's a problem - even if the gun could potentially be historically significant.
 
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Johnny Utah said:
I do not have kids, but I do lock my stuff up when company/children are present.

To be honest, I think I would be hesitant to provide info (yet openly discuss here🤔) as an acquaintance had kids from their sons school over to recreate for the day. The parents of the guest children did ask if there were firearms in the house, long story short a few weeks down the road the guest children’s parents were incredibly anti-gun while the hosts were not. In some sort of school/online drama this made its way to the authorities at the school in which the anti-gun parents questioned the way the firearms were secured - which then led to a search/wellness check by the local police department as well as the drama the kids in the school had to go through as the gun owners were made to look like the Manson Group by what was a majority of anti-gun staff. No arrests or citations were made.

So while it seems very simple to just comply, if someone who is not well versed or does not have a grounded opinion based on fact wants to raise a red flag based on opinion, there are consequences by complying with a simple request.
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he should have asked the anti-gun parents if they have any knives, chainsaws, nailguns, chemical cleaners, gas cans, hammers (ask Paul Pelosi) or any other potentially dangerous item found in most homes and if they are secured.
 
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JPark said:
he should have asked the anti-gun parents if they have any knives, chainsaws, nailguns, chemical cleaners, gas cans, hammers (ask Paul Pelosi) or any other potentially dangerous item found in most homes and if they are secured.
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I concur - I guess that is kind of my point with a lot of my posts in this thread. Society places guns on such a high pedestal but ignores so many other things that are also dangerous - be pre or post horrific event.

We (society) also wouldn’t dare put the same restrictions guns face on these other items as many would find it “inconvenient”.
 
JPark said:
he should have asked the anti-gun parents if they have any knives, chainsaws, nailguns, chemical cleaners, gas cans, hammers (ask Paul Pelosi) or any other potentially dangerous item found in most homes and if they are secured.
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Find me one case where kids found a chainsaw, started it up and accidentally killed their friend. Or took said chainsaw to a school and tried mowing people down with it.

A good parent with guns will properly teach their children how to handle a gun and the gun safety rules. And then make sure the gun is inaccessible to their child because...they're still a child.
 
Santapez said:
Find me one case where kids found a chainsaw, started it up and accidentally killed their friend. Or took said chainsaw to a school and tried mowing people down with it.

A good parent with guns will properly teach their children how to handle a gun and the gun safety rules. And then make sure the gun is inaccessible to their child because...they're still a child.
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www.mirror.co.uk

Boy cut off his own head with chainsaw after losing computer game

Pavel Matveev, 15, walked into the garden of his home after becoming frustrated with the game and took his own life
www.mirror.co.uk

This kid killed himself with a chainsaw.
 
Santapez said:
Find me one case where kids found a chainsaw, started it up and accidentally killed their friend. Or took said chainsaw to a school and tried mowing people down with it.

A good parent with guns will properly teach their children how to handle a gun and the gun safety rules. And then make sure the gun is inaccessible to their child because...they're still a child.
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Also, if this is your case that they are going to steal a gun and bring it to school then what about taking a car? Are you asking where all the keys are kept and if they are locked and out of access?
 
roc said:
Jesus, that’s awful. only in Russia.
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It took a two second search. I am sure I can find more if I dig deeper.

The anatomy of a Russia person is the same as an American person. Careful, disagreement here may label someone as racist, prejudice or hateful - even considering all going on in Ukraine.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Also, if this is your case that they are going to steal a gun and bring it to school then what about taking a car? Are you asking where all the keys are kept and if they are locked and out of access?
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You going to find me a time in Russia a kid took his parent's car out on a killing spree?
 
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