Bye Bye Briz?

[bydabeach]

It was approved last night with lots of wailing and gnashing teeth. "Our hands are tied" is correct. Mayor's comments are quite accurate. This is a scam for builders. They have gamed the system, and the residents and open space lose the game. Mayor thinks nothing will happen at Briz for 8 years. Some of us will be in our sunset years, but I plan to ride until i die, so . . . .

Wall planners reluctantly approve affordable housing plan

WALL TOWNSHIP — The Wall Township Planning Board on Monday adopted a controversial fourth-round affordable Housing Element and Fair Share Plan, which was then

starnewsgroup.com

 

[John the Plumber]

It was approved last night with lots of wailing and gnashing teeth. "Our hands are tied" is correct. Mayor's comments are quite accurate. This is a scam for builders. They have gamed the system, and the residents and open space lose the game. Mayor thinks nothing will happen at Briz for 8 years. Some of us will be in our sunset years, but I plan to ride until i die, so . . . .

Wall planners reluctantly approve affordable housing plan

WALL TOWNSHIP — The Wall Township Planning Board on Monday adopted a controversial fourth-round affordable Housing Element and Fair Share Plan, which was then

starnewsgroup.com

I just ask a question average home price in Wall was $900k AI answer. So, if they are building 4000sq. ft. homes they are not affordable. If they build 1600 sq. ft. homes with 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms with subsides, they might be affordable. I would call this Bull Shit.

 

[mike_243]

It was approved last night with lots of wailing and gnashing teeth. "Our hands are tied" is correct. Mayor's comments are quite accurate. This is a scam for builders. They have gamed the system, and the residents and open space lose the game. Mayor thinks nothing will happen at Briz for 8 years. Some of us will be in our sunset years, but I plan to ride until i die, so . . . .

Wall planners reluctantly approve affordable housing plan

WALL TOWNSHIP — The Wall Township Planning Board on Monday adopted a controversial fourth-round affordable Housing Element and Fair Share Plan, which was then

starnewsgroup.com

yes a few of the JORBA reps went to the Monday meeting and from what we took from it was " "Our hands are tied" is correct."
Let's hope the construction takes as long as most government planing does.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I just ask a question average home price in Wall was $900k AI answer. So, if they are building 4000sq. ft. homes they are not affordable. If they build 1600 sq. ft. homes with 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms with subsides, they might be affordable. I would call this Bull Shit.

The affordable homes usually do not cover their tax burden, but are required by the State. Therefore the town works with the builder on the project and allows them to build homes outside the scope of what is considered “affordable housing”, this helps alleviate the increase in government services (schools, hospitals, public works, etc) needed by the additional units as the new construction has larger tax burdens. Further, the town will (usually) throw other items on for the builder to cover that helps the town (new athletic fields, traffic lights, park enhancements, etc.)

Down the road from the WMA at Allaire, (off 34 behind the ShopRite), those new homes had tax bills assessed near $40k annually.

I hate to say this - but there will continue to be a lot more of this, the same thing just happened in Little Egg Harbor (and many other towns). NJ is growing, while it helps our real estate prices for homeowners (depending on how you look at it), the sprawl of Philly/Newark/NYC is not stopping.

Grand Junction Colorado looks nicer ever year, but they are going through the same thing. My drive across the country last year showed me Tucson, Phoenix, Nashville, Moab, Denver and their surrounding suburbs are all going through it. Even small towns in Kansas like Colby are starting to explode with growth.

The US population is estimated today somewhere near 347 million people vs. 309 million people in 2010. We need to house them somewhere🤷‍♂️

But yes, the suck of loosing open space is real.

 

[one piece crank]

Sprinkle legit native artifacts around the site and get historians in to find them.

 

[Norm]

The affordable homes usually do not cover their tax burden, but are required by the State. Therefore the town works with the builder on the project and allows them to build homes outside the scope of what is considered “affordable housing”, this helps alleviate the increase in government services (schools, hospitals, public works, etc) needed by the additional units as the new construction has larger tax burdens. Further, the town will (usually) throw other items on for the builder to cover that helps the town (new athletic fields, traffic lights, park enhancements, etc.)

Down the road from the WMA at Allaire, (off 34 behind the ShopRite), those new homes had tax bills assessed near $40k annually.

I hate to say this - but there will continue to be a lot more of this, the same thing just happened in Little Egg Harbor (and many other towns). NJ is growing, while it helps our real estate prices for homeowners (depending on how you look at it), the sprawl of Philly/Newark/NYC is not stopping.

Grand Junction Colorado looks nicer ever year, but they are going through the same thing. My drive across the country last year showed me Tucson, Phoenix, Nashville, Moab, Denver and their surrounding suburbs are all going through it. Even small towns in Kansas like Colby are starting to explode with growth.

The US population is estimated today somewhere near 347 million people vs. 309 million people in 2010. We need to house them somewhere🤷‍♂️

But yes, the suck of loosing open space is real.

This is a fair post. The population numbers are one thing, and they're nothing to sneeze at. But also, small towns are shrinking. Lots of middle American towns are basically drying up. I think some towns in the midwest are offering to pay people to move there. While I understand why they might do that, it's not exactly economically viable.

But in this day and age, people have the Internet everywhere. You grow up in a town in the middle of nowhere with 215 people, but you see the world through your phone from the age of 6. At some point, you just have no desire at all to stay in the small town. Naturally you gravitate towards these population centers.

And one might counter that those of us who grew up here might want to move out. Well, let's be real. Very, very few of us are moving to that town of (now) 214 people. We're moving to those spots outside of Grand Junction, or Stowe, or Moab, and so on. Compared to the small town, those places are crowded. Compared to NJ, it's like living in the woods for us.

Anyway, a lot of the world is already like this. The US is just transforming, like it always does.

End of the day? Your last statement is dead-on-balls accurate. The suck is real.

 

[JonF]

According to Wall twp tax data, the entire Brisbane site is 356 acres. The area of that is clearly defined on maps and comprises the trails we all ride on. The portion slated for development is only 155 acres and is said to be only the former facility grounds. Can anyone find a map of that 155 acre sub-plot within the greater 356 acre blob? It would help determine if how much, if any, of the trail system were impacted.

 

[one piece crank]

I’m not familiar with that area, but you can try this,

ARCGIS - Twp. Of Wall Interactive Zone Map.

 

[MikeyBikey2000]

Probably everything inside the fence is in play

 

[Bike N Gear]

According to Wall twp tax data, the entire Brisbane site is 356 acres. The area of that is clearly defined on maps and comprises the trails we all ride on. The portion slated for development is only 155 acres and is said to be only the former facility grounds. Can anyone find a map of that 155 acre sub-plot within the greater 356 acre blob? It would help determine if how much, if any, of the trail system were impacted.

Gemini couldn't answer this. Chatgpt took almost a minute to come up with an answer. Never seen it take so long. Who knows if it's accurate.


Thought for 53s
Short answer: about 10.3 acres.

Context: the state’s current demolition solicitation for the former Arthur Brisbane Child Treatment Center describes the developed campus area (the part that’s fenced and holds the remaining buildings/utilities) as a 10.3-acre site. The broader state-owned tract at 4240 Atlantic Ave (Block 952, Lot 1) is much larger—about 386 acres—but that includes woods and open land that aren’t inside the fence.

 

[MikeyBikey2000]

Gemini couldn't answer this. Chatgpt took almost a minute to come up with an answer. Never seen it take so long. Who knows if it's accurate.


Thought for 53s
Short answer: about 10.3 acres.

Context: the state’s current demolition solicitation for the former Arthur Brisbane Child Treatment Center describes the developed campus area (the part that’s fenced and holds the remaining buildings/utilities) as a 10.3-acre site. The broader state-owned tract at 4240 Atlantic Ave (Block 952, Lot 1) is much larger—about 386 acres—but that includes woods and open land that aren’t inside the fence.

Hey look at that.. just what I said, and only took me 58s

 

[bydabeach]

Gemini couldn't answer this. Chatgpt took almost a minute to come up with an answer. Never seen it take so long. Who knows if it's accurate.


Thought for 53s
Short answer: about 10.3 acres.

Context: the state’s current demolition solicitation for the former Arthur Brisbane Child Treatment Center describes the developed campus area (the part that’s fenced and holds the remaining buildings/utilities) as a 10.3-acre site. The broader state-owned tract at 4240 Atlantic Ave (Block 952, Lot 1) is much larger—about 386 acres—but that includes woods and open land that aren’t inside the fence.

I will go out there with my tape measure and slide rule this weekend and come back with some accurate calculations. 😉

 

[bydabeach]

The affordable homes usually do not cover their tax burden, but are required by the State. Therefore the town works with the builder on the project and allows them to build homes outside the scope of what is considered “affordable housing”, this helps alleviate the increase in government services (schools, hospitals, public works, etc) needed by the additional units as the new construction has larger tax burdens. Further, the town will (usually) throw other items on for the builder to cover that helps the town (new athletic fields, traffic lights, park enhancements, etc.)

Down the road from the WMA at Allaire, (off 34 behind the ShopRite), those new homes had tax bills assessed near $40k annually.

I hate to say this - but there will continue to be a lot more of this, the same thing just happened in Little Egg Harbor (and many other towns). NJ is growing, while it helps our real estate prices for homeowners (depending on how you look at it), the sprawl of Philly/Newark/NYC is not stopping.

Grand Junction Colorado looks nicer ever year, but they are going through the same thing. My drive across the country last year showed me Tucson, Phoenix, Nashville, Moab, Denver and their surrounding suburbs are all going through it. Even small towns in Kansas like Colby are starting to explode with growth.

The US population is estimated today somewhere near 347 million people vs. 309 million people in 2010. We need to house them somewhere🤷‍♂️

But yes, the suck of loosing open space is real.

This is true. I am blessed to have a second home in Sedona, Arizona where the mountain bike riding and hiking is fabulous. This is one area where the trails will be preserved because much of Sedona is surrounded by National Forest. That's of course as long as the government does not sell off portions of the National Forest. In the small local paper, there are persistent cries for the needs of affordable housing (which are legit) because the major industry is tourism, and hotel and restaurant workers cannot afford to live in Sedona and must live 30-45 minutes away in more affordable locales. Despite the cries, nothing gets done, and there is very little buildable land left in Sedona to do what is being done in NJ, particularly Monmouth County.

I grew up in Wall, moved away a few times, and I think we are back here for quite a while longer. Forty to fifty years ago, Atlantic Ave (County 520) used to be so quite, tumbleweeds could be seen rolling down the road. The fire station I volunteer at is now a combination paid and volunteer fire station, with more paid firefighters being hired. It's a sign of the times. In the middle of the day, it sometimes takes 5 plus minutes to exit the fire station parking lot because of the crush of traffic going past the station. With major housing projects on both ends of Atlantic Avenue (Briz and Peddler's Village), Atlantic Ave will need to become a 4 lane freeway.

 

[bydabeach]

yes a few of the JORBA reps went to the Monday meeting and from what we took from it was " "Our hands are tied" is correct."
Let's hope the construction takes as long as most government planing does.

I do hope you pointed out that there is a very dangerous problem out in Briz with chiggers and ticks that will pose a great danger to anyone who lives out there?

 

[Bike N Gear]

I do hope you pointed out that there is a very dangerous problem out in Briz with chiggers and ticks that will pose a great danger to anyone who lives out there?

Need to contact the Save the Chigger and Tick protection groups and get them involved.

 

[BCurry]

In addition to losing trails; Atlantic avenue is one of the biggest east-west thoroughfares for road cyclists in the area. It’s one of the few roads that I feel motorists expect to see riders on the road in my area; adding an additional 1000 cars to that road on a daily basis, adds even more fear to riding on the road.

 

[Johnny Utah]

This is true. I am blessed to have a second home in Sedona, Arizona where the mountain bike riding and hiking is fabulous. This is one area where the trails will be preserved because much of Sedona is surrounded by National Forest. That's of course as long as the government does not sell off portions of the National Forest. In the small local paper, there are persistent cries for the needs of affordable housing (which are legit) because the major industry is tourism, and hotel and restaurant workers cannot afford to live in Sedona and must live 30-45 minutes away in more affordable locales. Despite the cries, nothing gets done, and there is very little buildable land left in Sedona to do what is being done in NJ, particularly Monmouth County.

I grew up in Wall, moved away a few times, and I think we are back here for quite a while longer. Forty to fifty years ago, Atlantic Ave (County 520) used to be so quite, tumbleweeds could be seen rolling down the road. The fire station I volunteer at is now a combination paid and volunteer fire station, with more paid firefighters being hired. It's a sign of the times. In the middle of the day, it sometimes takes 5 plus minutes to exit the fire station parking lot because of the crush of traffic going past the station. With major housing projects on both ends of Atlantic Avenue (Briz and Peddler's Village), Atlantic Ave will need to become a 4 lane freeway.

I hear that, I grew up in Wall before it got crazy. We sold our starter home on the boarder of Point Pleasant, Brick & Brielle three years ago and moved to Little Egg Harbor in the woods to escape the congestion.

The move out west is in the plans, no longer than 15 years, but that can be cut short and was an almost two years ago. I have two builders and a real estate agent in Grand Junction in the Roladex. Palisade or Fruita would be the suburb.

Sedona is fantastic - I have been twice and know some of the issues there in regards to real estate/congestion/housing. Great area, I usually rent a house behind Sedona Beer Company.

 

[Steve Vai]

Not to put it out there, but people with multiple houses are also a major part of the problem. 1 person owning multiple homes means they have to build another house/houses somewhere. Most of these folks have one foot in the grave so maybe in a decade some of the housing boom will level out?

 

[Bike N Gear]

Not to put it out there, but people with multiple houses are also a major part of the problem. 1 person owning multiple homes means they have to build another house/houses somewhere. Most of these folks have one foot in the grave so maybe in a decade some of the housing boom will level out?

Nah. Just passes down to the heirs who continue on with two houses. Without low income housing there will always be a shortage. Problem is nobody wants low income houses near them.

 

[Santapez]

Not to put it out there, but people with multiple houses are also a major part of the problem. 1 person owning multiple homes means they have to build another house/houses somewhere. Most of these folks have one foot in the grave so maybe in a decade some of the housing boom will level out?

2nd homes should come with mandatory jury duty.