Cars, it's electric! Do Do Do

rick81721 said:
You're all over the place here. Battery tech is constantly evolving. This isn't a discussion on BEVs or FCVs vs current, just BEV vs FCV. And aerospace??
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Sure battery tech is constantly evolving, but the gains have been in ridiculously small increments.

rick81721 said:
From here:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51698#:~:text=In our Annual Energy Outlook,new wind and solar power.

Who said anything about it being "better"? All it does is reduce CO2 emissions. The wind blows enough, waves never stop, and the sun shines enough in many parts of the country.

Personally, I think we should have been 80+% nuke power by now but 3 mile island scared the snowflakes and here we are.
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Nukes are efficient, however the problem is the risk profile. Very low likelihood of occurrence, extremely high impact, as in can render an entire part of the plant uninhabitable for the next 5000 years. And its not like we can sit here and say it can never happen, because we've come pretty damn close. And if you believe the premise that man-made C02 is warming the planet, this push on EV's is even more ridiculous since road transport as a whole (cars, trucks, etc.) accounts for 15% of global C02.
UtahJoe said:
I thought I would share this story for @Carson

So I took the mustang out last night with my son...stopped in Denville for some bubble tea for my son....really no place to go last night so I was like...hey lets take a ride over to RT10, I want to look at that KIA EV6 GT....maybe they will let me test drive one. So we drive over...and I love that section of 10 in the mustang bc of the huge concrete divider...it just echos back the sound of the mustang as you drive in the left lane, and its a glorious experience.

Anyway so I pull up front....3 salesman come out and start drooling over the car....asking me about it, etc....So the one salesman....not sure what his deal was, but he starts touching the car with his fingers.....like running his finger down the edge of the fender....than he puts his palm on it....eventually I had to just say...."yo" and give him a head nod....like WTF are you doing man? I mean the amount of people I see who look at a nice car and think OHHHH LET ME TOUCH IT!!!! Anyway....so my son and I go and check out this fancy EV6 GT....and it looks really cool I must say....$65,000 for the fast one is a little bonkers. But we walk around...nobody talks to us. Go inside the showroom where they had 3 of them. We sit in one, hang out for 10 min....nobody comes over. So eventually I left. Soon as I fire the mustang back up the same 3 came running back outside to watch me drive away.
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Wow! Lazy salesmen! Those guys clearly think those cars will sell themselves, and they're probably correct. An EV makes sense to me for running around town, the driving you do in a 10-20 mile radius, but a cheap and basic EV. These $65k plus EV's don't really make sense to me. A battery that's good for around 10-12yrs then super expensive to replace. Taking that as a factor, what's your resale value in 5-6yrs when you want a new one? As these things evolve and range gets better, car gets faster, who wants the older version? Its like buying a 5yr old computer vs. a new one. At least with a really cheap one you can your moneys worth out of it and then get rid of it like you do any old appliance.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
Nukes are efficient, however the problem is the risk profile. Very low likelihood of occurrence, extremely high impact, as in can render an entire part of the plant uninhabitable for the next 5000 years. And its not like we can sit here and say it can never happen, because we've come pretty damn close.
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Fear mongering:

"The US Navy has accumulated over 6200 reactor-years of accident-free experience involving 526 nuclear reactor cores over the course of 240 million kilometres, without a single radiological incident, over a period of more than 50 years."
 
UtahJoe said:
I thought I would share this story for @Carson

So I took the mustang out last night with my son...stopped in Denville for some bubble tea for my son....really no place to go last night so I was like...hey lets take a ride over to RT10, I want to look at that KIA EV6 GT....maybe they will let me test drive one. So we drive over...and I love that section of 10 in the mustang bc of the huge concrete divider...it just echos back the sound of the mustang as you drive in the left lane, and its a glorious experience.

Anyway so I pull up front....3 salesman come out and start drooling over the car....asking me about it, etc....So the one salesman....not sure what his deal was, but he starts touching the car with his fingers.....like running his finger down the edge of the fender....than he puts his palm on it....eventually I had to just say...."yo" and give him a head nod....like WTF are you doing man? I mean the amount of people I see who look at a nice car and think OHHHH LET ME TOUCH IT!!!! Anyway....so my son and I go and check out this fancy EV6 GT....and it looks really cool I must say....$65,000 for the fast one is a little bonkers. But we walk around...nobody talks to us. Go inside the showroom where they had 3 of them. We sit in one, hang out for 10 min....nobody comes over. So eventually I left. Soon as I fire the mustang back up the same 3 came running back outside to watch me drive away.
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They probably assumed no one who drives a gas-guzzling classic car is buying an EV.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
Sure battery tech is constantly evolving, but the gains have been in ridiculously small increments.


Nukes are efficient, however the problem is the risk profile. Very low likelihood of occurrence, extremely high impact, as in can render an entire part of the plant uninhabitable for the next 5000 years. And its not like we can sit here and say it can never happen, because we've come pretty damn close. And if you believe the premise that man-made C02 is warming the planet, this push on EV's is even more ridiculous since road transport as a whole (cars, trucks, etc.) accounts for 15% of global C02.

Wow! Lazy salesmen! Those guys clearly think those cars will sell themselves, and they're probably correct. An EV makes sense to me for running around town, the driving you do in a 10-20 mile radius, but a cheap and basic EV. These $65k plus EV's don't really make sense to me. A battery that's good for around 10-12yrs then super expensive to replace. Taking that as a factor, what's your resale value in 5-6yrs when you want a new one? As these things evolve and range gets better, car gets faster, who wants the older version? Its like buying a 5yr old computer vs. a new one. At least with a really cheap one you can your moneys worth out of it and then get rid of it like you do any old appliance.
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Ya at this point in time I'm only looking to replace my daily driver and commute to work with. But I'll probably wait a couple more years to actually buy anything.

rick81721 said:
They probably assumed no one who drives a gas-guzzling classic car is buying an EV.
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Maybe... In the past I have gone to dealerships with the mustang and it usually works awesome.... I had a salesman let me drive an 03 cobra if I took him for a ride in my car lol
 
rick81721 said:
Fear mongering:

"The US Navy has accumulated over 6200 reactor-years of accident-free experience involving 526 nuclear reactor cores over the course of 240 million kilometres, without a single radiological incident, over a period of more than 50 years."
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This exactly illustrates low probability, high impact. We still had Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. These were all really close calls.
 
UtahJoe said:
Ya at this point in time I'm only looking to replace my daily driver and commute to work with. But I'll probably wait a couple more years to actually buy anything.
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The "cheapest" Tesla is about $37K. The cheapest Hyundai, Toyota or Honda is $24K.
My old Elantra lasted 160K miles before it started to need things. I'd say the market is still not showing anything that can affordably replace ICE with EV when it comes to commuter beaters.
 
ebarker9 said:
I think it's completely going to depend on gas prices, how much you drive, where you drive, and rates for electricity. There have been a number of reports suggesting that actual ownership cost for a commuter type EV is below the gas car equivalent. One example:

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When I say commuter beater, I am talking about a car that you will put 150K in the first 5 years and look to replace in about 7 years. The cost of replacement comes into play and I think it is cheaper to burn out and buy two ICE cars than two EV's.
It is possible that an EV can last twice as long as an ICE and have less operating costs, but most people still can't afford the entry point.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
This exactly illustrates low probability, high impact. We still had Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. These were all really close calls.
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"We" is the US. We should have built hundreds of small, modular military-grade reactors. We know how to do it safely.

"Some countries have embraced nuclear power, such as France, which produces 70% of its electricity from nuclear power. The new modular reactors are even safer than existing reactors and, according to some experts, do not pose any threat of a meltdown. For example, Bill Gates wrote about the TerraPower reactor design that “accidents would literally be prevented by the laws of physics.”

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion...litary-should-build-modular-nuclear-reactors/
 
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JerseyPete said:
When I say commuter beater, I am talking about a car that you will put 150K in the first 5 years and look to replace in about 7 years. The cost of replacement comes into play and I think it is cheaper to burn out and buy two ICE cars than two EV's.
It is possible that an EV can last twice as long as an ICE and have less operating costs, but most people still can't afford the entry point.
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"On average, Tesla car batteries are designed to last for about 300,000 to 500,000 miles of driving. This means that the battery in a well-maintained Tesla could last for 10 to 20 years, depending on usage and environmental factors."
 
UtahJoe said:
I thought I would share this story for @Carson

So I took the mustang out last night with my son...stopped in Denville for some bubble tea for my son....really no place to go last night so I was like...hey lets take a ride over to RT10, I want to look at that KIA EV6 GT....maybe they will let me test drive one. So we drive over...and I love that section of 10 in the mustang bc of the huge concrete divider...it just echos back the sound of the mustang as you drive in the left lane, and its a glorious experience.

Anyway so I pull up front....3 salesman come out and start drooling over the car....asking me about it, etc....So the one salesman....not sure what his deal was, but he starts touching the car with his fingers.....like running his finger down the edge of the fender....than he puts his palm on it....eventually I had to just say...."yo" and give him a head nod....like WTF are you doing man? I mean the amount of people I see who look at a nice car and think OHHHH LET ME TOUCH IT!!!! Anyway....so my son and I go and check out this fancy EV6 GT....and it looks really cool I must say....$65,000 for the fast one is a little bonkers. But we walk around...nobody talks to us. Go inside the showroom where they had 3 of them. We sit in one, hang out for 10 min....nobody comes over. So eventually I left. Soon as I fire the mustang back up the same 3 came running back outside to watch me drive away.
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If that was @Carson 's new Porsche, the dealer would have one less salesman as of last night.
 
rick81721 said:
"On average, Tesla car batteries are designed to last for about 300,000 to 500,000 miles of driving. This means that the battery in a well-maintained Tesla could last for 10 to 20 years, depending on usage and environmental factors."
Click to expand...
I know of two Tesla people with 200K miles and no issues. One guy does time trials across Nevada with his.
The price point of getting one is still out of reach for many people.
 
UtahJoe said:
I thought I would share this story for @Carson

So I took the mustang out last night with my son...stopped in Denville for some bubble tea for my son....really no place to go last night so I was like...hey lets take a ride over to RT10, I want to look at that KIA EV6 GT....maybe they will let me test drive one. So we drive over...and I love that section of 10 in the mustang bc of the huge concrete divider...it just echos back the sound of the mustang as you drive in the left lane, and its a glorious experience.

Anyway so I pull up front....3 salesman come out and start drooling over the car....asking me about it, etc....So the one salesman....not sure what his deal was, but he starts touching the car with his fingers.....like running his finger down the edge of the fender....than he puts his palm on it....eventually I had to just say...."yo" and give him a head nod....like WTF are you doing man? I mean the amount of people I see who look at a nice car and think OHHHH LET ME TOUCH IT!!!! Anyway....so my son and I go and check out this fancy EV6 GT....and it looks really cool I must say....$65,000 for the fast one is a little bonkers. But we walk around...nobody talks to us. Go inside the showroom where they had 3 of them. We sit in one, hang out for 10 min....nobody comes over. So eventually I left. Soon as I fire the mustang back up the same 3 came running back outside to watch me drive away.
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To be honest, that's sort of the experience I want when looking at cars in a dealership as I hate being bothered by sales people. Only thing more frustrating than being bothered by salespeople when trying to look at cars is not finding a salesman when you actually need them. 🙂
 
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