In my opinion it minimizes the torque in the motor and more importantly it doesn’t kill a drivetrain every 500 miles.
E-bikes are a thing
- Thread starter jdog
- Start date
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
Try both. The S4 will fit a little more XC out of the box where the 3 will need some fiddling.
SAM
Well-Known Member
I think my 2022 has the Shimano EP8 RS motor, but I'd like to be wrong.
Ian F
Well-Known Member
So... a bit delayed, but I picked up the new bike from Halter's on Friday. First ride on Saturday at Green Lane Park in PA. Which coincidentally, happed to be an all ebike ride with my friends Frankie and Maria who were the catalysts for this purchase. So which bike did I choose?
Heckler CC XO AXS Reserve.
So... initial thoughts after the first ride.
Still not a fan of the SRAM brakes. Probably a set of XTR 4-piston brakes in my future. How a 4-pot brake with 200mm rotor can feel less powerful than a 2-pot brake with a 180mm rotor is not confidence inspiring. Maybe they will feel better with more break-in/bedding time.
The ZEB is way more fork than I need for this bike. Why Santa Cruz went with to the ZEB from the Fox 36 on the previous years and not a Lyrik is confusing to me. My WAG is this was the fork they could reliably get vs. other options. What to replace it with is under debate. My first thought is another Helm 1 if I can find one (I already have two, so there's familiarity and I really like the QR axle design). Next would be a Fox 36 - partly because I already bought upgrade parts (fender & QR axle) for one when I thought I might get Frankie's Heckler. Bearing in mind, I've never felt under-forked with a Cane Creek Helm on my Megatower doing bike park laps and occasionally over-shooting a landing to flat from a decent height. Yes - for how I transport and store my bikes, a QR axle is more important to me than it probably is for most.
Sizing thoughts - This bike is a Large and other than the epically long wheelbase, doesn't "feel" large to me.
The bike needs shorter cranks. Manufacturers are still a little behind the curve here. 165mm may be considered short, but an ebike needs even shorter cranks. Happy with the choice to go full-29er.
The EP801 motor tune needs adjustment. Something is definitely off here. I changed the Profile to the #2 default, and under most situations it was fine. However, "boost" is definitely NOT boost. In the highest setting, the assist basically stopped at 10 MPH. There is one longish double-track gravel climb at Green Lane and when I put it in the highest assist mode, it felt like it was fighting me trying to go fast. And unlike the other bikes I tested, this one does NOT seem to reward a high cadence - the faster I pedaled, the less assist I could feel - very strange. If anyone knows of a good tuning tutorial for the EP801, please let me know as I haven't found anything useful so far. Honestly, if I could just get the settings/profile that was on the Moterra SL, I'd be happy as I liked how the assist on that bike was tuned.
After one ride, I'm happy with the bike. If I could change one thing, I might have spent the extra coin for the full AXS version - partly because that spec comes with I9 wheels and would thus make it easier to have some of my existing wheelsets as spares thanks to the way you can just pull off the cassette/hub body assembly from Hydra rear hubs and swap over without tools.
Heckler CC XO AXS Reserve.
So... initial thoughts after the first ride.
Still not a fan of the SRAM brakes. Probably a set of XTR 4-piston brakes in my future. How a 4-pot brake with 200mm rotor can feel less powerful than a 2-pot brake with a 180mm rotor is not confidence inspiring. Maybe they will feel better with more break-in/bedding time.
The ZEB is way more fork than I need for this bike. Why Santa Cruz went with to the ZEB from the Fox 36 on the previous years and not a Lyrik is confusing to me. My WAG is this was the fork they could reliably get vs. other options. What to replace it with is under debate. My first thought is another Helm 1 if I can find one (I already have two, so there's familiarity and I really like the QR axle design). Next would be a Fox 36 - partly because I already bought upgrade parts (fender & QR axle) for one when I thought I might get Frankie's Heckler. Bearing in mind, I've never felt under-forked with a Cane Creek Helm on my Megatower doing bike park laps and occasionally over-shooting a landing to flat from a decent height. Yes - for how I transport and store my bikes, a QR axle is more important to me than it probably is for most.
Sizing thoughts - This bike is a Large and other than the epically long wheelbase, doesn't "feel" large to me.
The bike needs shorter cranks. Manufacturers are still a little behind the curve here. 165mm may be considered short, but an ebike needs even shorter cranks. Happy with the choice to go full-29er.
The EP801 motor tune needs adjustment. Something is definitely off here. I changed the Profile to the #2 default, and under most situations it was fine. However, "boost" is definitely NOT boost. In the highest setting, the assist basically stopped at 10 MPH. There is one longish double-track gravel climb at Green Lane and when I put it in the highest assist mode, it felt like it was fighting me trying to go fast. And unlike the other bikes I tested, this one does NOT seem to reward a high cadence - the faster I pedaled, the less assist I could feel - very strange. If anyone knows of a good tuning tutorial for the EP801, please let me know as I haven't found anything useful so far. Honestly, if I could just get the settings/profile that was on the Moterra SL, I'd be happy as I liked how the assist on that bike was tuned.
After one ride, I'm happy with the bike. If I could change one thing, I might have spent the extra coin for the full AXS version - partly because that spec comes with I9 wheels and would thus make it easier to have some of my existing wheelsets as spares thanks to the way you can just pull off the cassette/hub body assembly from Hydra rear hubs and swap over without tools.
Pretty sure the reason they go with 38s and Zebs is people buy into them being the best.
I've met multiple people who have swapped 38s onto their bikes and when asking what's improved the answer after a pause was "It's bigger".
If looking for an older Helm you may want to contact Cane Creek. One thing I've learned from going to their factory is they have a ton of old stuff they would love to get rid of.
I've met multiple people who have swapped 38s onto their bikes and when asking what's improved the answer after a pause was "It's bigger".
If looking for an older Helm you may want to contact Cane Creek. One thing I've learned from going to their factory is they have a ton of old stuff they would love to get rid of.
1) get the new firmware tune for the ep801….. it gives the motor proper overrun.
2) the Zeb with the 3.1 damper is pretty dam nice. Rockshox have very progressive air springs where the fox are more straight rate. If you have the older 2.1 or 3.0 dampers, make sure you have no tokens in the fork and run the compression full open.
3) wonder how long it will be till you start looking at a bullet.😁
2) the Zeb with the 3.1 damper is pretty dam nice. Rockshox have very progressive air springs where the fox are more straight rate. If you have the older 2.1 or 3.0 dampers, make sure you have no tokens in the fork and run the compression full open.
3) wonder how long it will be till you start looking at a bullet.😁
Let's do this.
Ian F
Well-Known Member
I think jdog said they did the latest firmware update before I got the bike.
The question is is HOW to fix the settings. The app is clear as mud to me. I see nothing regarding overrun or whatnot.
There is def a setting where the motor cuts out in mph.. the other stuff is automagic??
Riding the sweaty rocks today, I kept dropping to eco mode to prevent adding too much power. I remember a a ride with @Jefflenosky where he said upshift to prevent the spinout. Doesn't work with ebike! Lower the power!
Dropping the seat and stay seated putting all the weight on the rear tire was the trick today. That was almost comical today with how slippy it was. It was like the park was greased.
The E-TUBE app is less than awesome.
Following Johhny G in the sweaty rocks was humbling.. He is running Cushcore F/R and his tires pressure is silly low. Made a huge difference ... No to mention he has a crazy skill set.
Ian F
Well-Known Member
It's going to be a learning experience having a bike with an app... as much as I use technology, I'm also a "don't want to eff with it" type and just want it to work. I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to learning it as it's generally not something that interests me.
When I was riding the Moterra SL at Davis, I had a similar experience. Of the 8 settings on that bike, I rarely had it out of setting 2, which was about perfect for the endless technical moves you have to make riding there. Often in rapid succession. But technical moves have generally been one of the stronger areas of my riding and especially if I can use more of a "momentum" technique rather than trials moves. Ebikes seem to favor the former rather than the latter, although obviously a skilled trials rider can still do some amazing moves on an ebike.
I'm still imagining a nose wheel pivot on a 50lb bike.....maybe not the full 180, just a maneuver to realign the bike.
The app has a setting on how the power is brought in. I've moved it lower cause it feels familiar. Esp uphill. Either that or I need to rethink which gear to start.
Ian F
Well-Known Member
Like Danny MacAskill?
I'll keep digging through YouTube for a tutorial on the E-Tube app. What isn't really clear is exactly HOW to change the settings on how the power is brought in. Really annoying to me as Shimano used to include really good instructions with their parts.
I'll keep digging through YouTube for a tutorial on the E-Tube app. What isn't really clear is exactly HOW to change the settings on how the power is brought in. Really annoying to me as Shimano used to include really good instructions with their parts.
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This is old.. but perhaps helpful