H2H Question?

[Patrick]

What is a real pro field? I mean, local pros get paid in motocross, drag racing, etc. DJ attracted a bunch of fast riders with payouts in endurance. I mean, the more riders the bigger the purse and profit.

any chance he didn't want a bunch of whining pros at a more local race?
complaining about the course, lack of passing, lack of facilities, too small a payout,
staging is too small, run into the single track too short, neutral support not available,
the cat 1 sandbagger that blew up the pro field, lack of passing zones, lack of hotels in the area,
nothing to do after the race, should have paid 5 deep in a 20 person field/not 3,
too much tech, not enough tech, not enough flow. etc.
🙂
Love ya DT.
Did ya just ping Dave and ask? he is on FB and others.
occasionally stops here, but not lately.
@MtnRider

edit: sorry @UtahJoe ..... i know you just put your head down and go....fast

edit edit: I reached out to Dave to stop in and post up

 

[Joe J]

What is a real pro field? I mean, local pros get paid in motocross, drag racing, etc. DJ attracted a bunch of fast riders with payouts in endurance. I mean, the more riders the bigger the purse and profit.

I’m talking Sea Otter. I finished I think 4th or 5th at DJ’s race. I’m a 53yo no where near pro rider.

 

[ryderX]

BFLP syndrome

 

[Jeremy]

What is a real pro field? I mean, local pros get paid in motocross, drag racing, etc. DJ attracted a bunch of fast riders with payouts in endurance. I mean, the more riders the bigger the purse and profit.

Is $ really your incentive to compete in a local, grassroots pro field? If so, you picked the wrong sport.

 

[Dave Taylor]

Is $ really your incentive to compete in a local, grassroots pro field? If so, you picked the wrong sport.

Well, simple question, why is the Open class the only one required to have a USAC license? What does the paying extra do for me, given no cash payout? I have only taken home cash in one mass race and 3 or 4 endurance races so no, I still suck but am aspiring. Just call it cat 1 open at that point and do away with the annual. What I am saying is kinda what you’re saying. It’s grass roots so why does pro pay more to race than cat 1?

 

[Dave Taylor]

any chance he didn't want a bunch of whining pros at a more local race?
complaining about the course, lack of passing, lack of facilities, too small a payout,
staging is too small, run into the single track too short, neutral support not available,
the cat 1 sandbagger that blew up the pro field, lack of passing zones, lack of hotels in the area,
nothing to do after the race, should have paid 5 deep in a 20 person field/not 3,
too much tech, not enough tech, not enough flow. etc.
🙂
Love ya DT.
Did ya just ping Dave and ask? he is on FB and others.
occasionally stops here, but not lately.
@MtnRider

edit: sorry @UtahJoe ..... i know you just put your head down and go....fast

edit edit: I reached out to Dave to stop in and post up

Well, I did his last race, complimented it as my favorite course and thought the 1/2 mile leadin to the singletrack was plenty. No complaints there. If you want to stay as a series that gets smaller and smaller each year then keep doing the same. The problem is any feedback is taken as negative not “hey, maybe we can inprove something here”. So “keeping it small” doesn’t line up with promoters complaining no one is signing up and it’s not even worth putting on a race anymore.

For the record I mentiined Dave’s race because it was the first time I saw a non purse pro race other than maybe the long island guys donating the purse to a charity. If it’s really going to improvements then great. If you just settle for everything i. Life then nothing will ever get better.

Each year promoters can drastically change their courses up but instead they just stop promoting a race after a couple years because it’s boring.

 

[Dave Taylor]

I’m talking Sea Otter. I finished I think 4th or 5th at DJ’s race. I’m a 53yo no where near pro rider.

In a sense you are right but in a sense you have won an NUE or two?

 

[Norm]

I think you need to ask yourself this question as honestly as you can: Why do the promoters promote races?

 

[Dave Taylor]

I think you need to ask yourself this question as honestly as you can: Why do the promoters promote races?

I’m not sure but I would think passion...

 

[jeffstick]

I think you need to ask yourself this question as honestly as you can: Why do the promoters promote races?

I’m not sure I know the answer to this question anymore as the years have gone on but kinda know the answer to this question.....Why do the promoters stop promoting races? Because everyone complains and bitches about everything from payouts, course length/distance etc etc the list goes on.

 

[Norm]

I’m not sure I know the answer to this question anymore as the years have gone on but kinda know the answer to this question.....Why do the promoters stop promoting races? Because everyone complains and bitches about everything from payouts, course length/distance etc etc the list goes on.

I am with you about not knowing *why* anymore. At one point it was because we were pretty heavily into the scene, and complained plenty, then @ryderX busted our balls just enough to make us pull the trigger. At first it was fun. The short track series really was a different thing. The Stewart races changing formats. The snow race. That sort of stuff was legit fun.

As the years have gone on, it's not quite as fun (I am not shoveling 2-3 feet of snow ever again, thank you) but it becomes more about the scene. We see people we know & like. We hang out. We make & eat food. We have a production that benefits the people who come. We have also come to realize that the middle pack - the cat 2, aka Sport racers - are what really keep things moving for most of us. I think we also like the beginners, the cat 3 crowd, and the enthusiasm they all bring.

Most of that cat 1/pro crowd are guys we have raced with over the years, or at least ridden with. We obviously have a long history with them. And for the most part, they're nice guys. But they're the class that tells us why the race was done wrong, why the start order was wrong, why we paid out wrong, etc. I don't take it personally and I know that people get competitive. I will never say that the complaining is what makes me not want to do this anymore. But I also don't do this for the cat 1 crew's enthusiasm. I have friends who are cat 1 racers that tell me they don't do our races for random & nonsensical reasons from time to time.

I mean, I once had a cat 1 guy come up with his envelope and tell me I made a mistake because there wasn't enough money in it. Most of the guys are not like that. But some are.

The main reason I would stop doing this is because I feel that our races are getting stale. This is our own doing, to a point. We've put 2 races into the series and while it may have helped the scene, it has also increased the stale factor quite a bit. The races start to move more & more towards auto-pilot every year. So you take away a lot of the peaks but keep the valleys. And that starts to beg the question of why you do it.

I have recently had a strong urge to bring back a random Stewart format and the Short Track series. We'll see what 2021 brings. Right now it is a load of nothing but hopefully that will change before long.

Also know that while I am "the guy who runs the team" this is just my opinion and if the team votes to keep things the way they are, we will. At the end of the day, the only real thing keeping me promoting these races is that I get to spend time with my team, which is a collection of people that I genuinely enjoy hanging out with.

PS. It's not for the money, you can be sure of that.

 

[Jeremy]

Well, simple question, why is the Open class the only one required to have a USAC license? What does the paying extra do for me, given no cash payout? I have only taken home cash in one mass race and 3 or 4 endurance races so no, I still suck but am aspiring. Just call it cat 1 open at that point and do away with the annual. What I am saying is kinda what you’re saying. It’s grass roots so why does pro pay more to race than cat 1?

You still need an annual license for cat 1.
It’s a hundred bucks. It’s bullshit. Fuck USAC for so many reasons that I’m not going to even get into here.
I race enough races that require it so, it comes out to like five to 7 bucks a race extra. I pay that for a chain and some lube and don’t think twice.

I paid 100 for a gravel race that isn’t giving me shit.

 

[Steve Vai]

I paid 100 for a gravel race that isn’t giving me shit.

This is the new normal.

 

[jeffstick]

PS. It's not for the money, you can be sure of that.

This is true

 

[jeffstick]

I paid 100 for a gravel race that isn’t giving me shit.

Well if you are lucky they will at least mark the course? many of these are taking your money and giving you a GPX file to follow

 

[xc62701]

I only have a few races under my promoter belt, and it’s definitely not for the money. We put the races on to give back to the cycling scene and put on something that we want to see in the race scene. It’s one thing to complain about aspects of the race, but it’s another to put it on and give your own spin on things. It’s great when the event is successful and over as it’s a ton of hard work. I can see how it would get old quickly.

 

[Dave Taylor]

You still need an annual license for cat 1.
It’s a hundred bucks. It’s bullshit. Fuck USAC for so many reasons that I’m not going to even get into here.
I race enough races that require it so, it comes out to like five to 7 bucks a race extra. I pay that for a chain and some lube and don’t think twice.

I paid 100 for a gravel race that isn’t giving me shit.

I am pretty sure they just changed those rules. I looked last week and it said you need an annual license for the championship but a daily was good for a single race for cat one. I just looked and it appears the website is updated. How many races did you do last year to justify your Usac license? Will 2021 be any different? We are still in the same pandemic that we were in last year. It seems that most promoters don’t like the fact that H2H usac and unfortunately the title sponsor and one promoter refuse to get away from usac which does nothing for mtb racing. It’s not the $100 that bothers me it’s more what I am getting for the $100 which is nothing.

 

[Dave Taylor]

I only have a few races under my promoter belt, and it’s definitely not for the money. We put the races on to give back to the cycling scene and put on something that we want to see in the race scene. It’s one thing to complain about aspects of the race, but it’s another to put it on and give your own spin on things. It’s great when the event is successful and over as it’s a ton of hard work. I can see how it would get old quickly.

Perfect, let’s keep the H2H series interesting. Keep the promoters rotating from venue to venue each year so they don’t get bored. They can put their own spin on each course.

 

[Jeremy]

I am pretty sure they just changed those rules. I looked last week and it said you need an annual license for the championship but a daily was good for a single race for cat one. I just looked and it appears the website is updated. How many races did you do last year to justify your Usac license? Will 2021 be any different? We are still in the same pandemic that we were in last year. It seems that most promoters don’t like the fact that H2H usac and unfortunately the title sponsor and one promoter refuse to get away from usac which does nothing for mtb racing. It’s not the $100 that bothers me it’s more what I am getting for the $100 which is nothing.

cat 1 has always needed an annual license to my knowledge. Maybe not. But since I started racing cat 1 I’ve gotten the annual. Actually before because cross needed it.

Are you complaining about payouts or USAC. I am with you on USAC. Like I said I’m not a fan but most of the races I enjoy racing are USAC so it’s a necessary evil.

As for payouts, I can honestly say that in my 12 years of racing, I don’t ever remember them being a deciding factor in signing up for a race.

In an admission of my own vanity, I’d much rather have a picture of myself up on the podium after a hard fought, and won, battle on the trails.

 

[Steve Vai]

cat 1 has always needed an annual license to my knowledge. Maybe not. But since I started racing cat 1 I’ve gotten the annual. Actually before because cross needed it.

Are you complaining about payouts or USAC. I am with you on USAC. Like I said I’m not a fan but most of the races I enjoy racing are USAC so it’s a necessary evil.

As for payouts, I can honestly say that in my 12 years of racing, I don’t ever remember them being a deciding factor in signing up for a race.

In an admission of my own vanity, I’d much rather have a picture of myself up on the podium after a hard fought, and won, battle on the trails.

Cat1 used to be the $150 Pro/Cat1 License while I was racing XC. But, I also made $100-$250 per race so it was a no brainer. These days it definitely stops me from jumping into anything...