Tariffs...what to make of them.

[Mahnken]

I said that I would rather respect both of our personal time because since I don't think in absolutes (100% this, 0% that, everything is this, nobody is that, etc.) our "discussion" would go nowhere.

And since then in this thread that's exactly where it's gone. I can't keep re-explaining these basics. Pls do infer out of this post what you want to believe versus what I am saying.

So you came in with no actual political discussion. Just came to say a discussion would go nowhere. Never actually discussed anything political, won't even try to, and you're surprised the discussion went..... Nowhere?
This is like, the definition of a troll.
Edit to add: and by doing so, you've done exactly what you were trying not to do, waste all our personal time

 

[Bike N Gear]

If the IRS is gone, there will be no more federal government. This can't be good.

Flat tax. Of course the poorest will be hurt the most, but not really a concern of the two guys running the show.

 

[Pearl]

If the IRS is gone, there will be no more federal government. This can't be good.

but then i wouldnt have to pay taxes, you gotta think DEEPER

 

[Robson]

Cool. Seems they're dismantling environmental protection and programs and empowering white supremacists. Exactly what I've been reading about.

I can't believe all this is happening. DOGE department is illegal. Congress has the authority to create departments, not presidents. Are they cutting waste??? Sorry but USAID is less than 1% of the federal budget. Musk is not a legal government employee and taking down all agencies that investigated his businesses. I must be having a bad dream. This reminds me of Germany in the 1930's.

 

[Patrick]

Can we talk about white fragility?

I have no problem discussing implicit bias in white people - especially in my age group with where i grew up.
No denial. I put in the work, but it will never be totally eradicated - to claim it could is farcical.
I do tend to get perturbed when groups are lumped into a bucket of "they."

The hope was that future generations wouldn't be (as) burdened, yet the current climate seems to be removing safeguards which helped keep us on track.

 

[PRus]

First, I disagree with most the methods how changes are being made. On the other hand, I agree that with most of the issues brought up there is mismanagement, fraud, waste,.....!
For example, the war, the last few years all the talk was about how much more money the Ukraine need to win the war versus now there's more talk about how to end the war? Again, agree or disagree about how Trump goes about it.
The tariffs, i and likely probably many of others was not aware of the current imbalance with lots of countries. American cars to EU 10%, in reverse 2.5% (i assume for arguments sake that is correct). Should that be changed?
There are government programs being cut or drastically reduced now. I believe many will be reinstated by court order again but at least there's more awareness about waste and abuse and some good can more out of it in the long-term.
My question to the majority of contributors her is that everything was just wonderful before and there's no need for change anywhere?

 

[SmooveP]

Ooooh, me smart, me pick up on petty, me proud. Me now go swing hockey stick like you suggest.

And holy crap, capitalizing a word means it's a BIG versus a small inference? As opposed to EMPHASIS? I said it once I'll say it again, talk about reading what you want it to say versus what's down on paper(screen).

Can't wait to hear how I just made a BIG emphasis!

Easy, killer. You could clear up the confusion by restating what you were trying to say in your original post.

 

[rjr44]

So you came in with no actual political discussion. Just came to say a discussion would go nowhere. Never actually discussed anything political, won't even try to, and you're surprised the discussion went..... Nowhere?
This is like, the definition of a troll.
Edit to add: and by doing so, you've done exactly what you were trying not to do, waste all our personal time

Says one of the guys who claimed I said things I didn't say and when asked to back it up couldn't. No need to respond, ignoring in 3...2...

 

[rjr44]

Easy, killer. You could clear up the confusion by restating what you were trying to say in your original post.

So you could once again not comprehend it and mis-interpret a second time? You could do that by just re-reading it. No need to respond, ignoring in 3...2...

 

[rjr44]

First, I disagree with most the methods how changes are being made. On the other hand, I agree that with most of the issues brought up there is mismanagement, fraud, waste,.....!
For example, the war, the last few years all the talk was about how much more money the Ukraine need to win the war versus now there's more talk about how to end the war? Again, agree or disagree about how Trump goes about it.
The tariffs, i and likely probably many of others was not aware of the current imbalance with lots of countries. American cars to EU 10%, in reverse 2.5% (i assume for arguments sake that is correct). Should that be changed?
There are government programs being cut or drastically reduced now. I believe many will be reinstated by court order again but at least there's more awareness about waste and abuse and some good can more out of it in the long-term.
My question to the majority of contributors her is that everything was just wonderful before and there's no need for change anywhere?

Thank you for chiming in and whether or not it was in response to my original post, you said something in the spirit of the question I asked. Glad to see that it isn't all doom and gloom even tho many in this thread suggest otherwise.

 

[Santapez]

I would say that I have a hard time believing that people who voted for trump don't at least have some implicit racial biases.

And I don't see how this
View attachment 255716
is going to help minorities in school when this is a reality:
View attachment 255717

Think the quote I heard which was pretty accurate is "Not all voters who voted for Trump are racist. But all the racists voted for Trump."

There's millions of non-white people who voted for Trump, and I'm sure a huge percentage of the white ones aren't racist. There's multiple reasons why someone would have voted for him. And even if someone thought Trump was racist it may be that there was an overwhelming reason to vote for him over Kamala. Not saying they were right, but there was reasoning.

I can easily be moved from my position on this, but I'd say DEI was one of the easiest low-hanging fruit to remove. What started out as a good intention has moved beyond that. What is needed is clear HR policy of hiring candidates from diverse backgrounds, not what DEI has turned into. I have not seen any evidence that lack of diversity has been so bad on the Federal hiring that they needed hundreds of well paid personnel working solely on DEI as full time positions in each department.

For instance, did the VA need 60 people who's full time jobs were DEI making on average $133k a year? Maybe DEI isn't bad but even 10 DEI employees and 50 more nurses would be better.

But it's bad optics and comes off immediately as Trump being racist ending DEI.

 

[SmooveP]

So you could once again not comprehend it and mis-interpret a second time? You could do that by just re-reading it. No need to respond, ignoring in 3...2...

If multiple people are having trouble interpreting what you say, maybe try saying it in short and simple terms that even us dummies can understand.

 

[Santapez]

If the IRS is gone, there will be no more federal government. This can't be good.

We didn't have the IRS until the "temporary" income tax during the Civil War. Not that it's going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[thegock]

So you could once again not comprehend it and mis-interpret a second time? You could do that by just re-reading it. No need to respond, ignoring in 3...2...

OK, I will play.

I agree that eliminating the penny is good policy.

Now, maybe you can explain why pardoning 174 FELONS who assaulted LEO with deadly or dangerous weapons is good policy. You know, cuz first board on the MAGA chess team is incapable or afraid to do so.

BTW, I know you ride and participate constructively in the TM process at CR. Just like @Captain Brainstorm guys who do TM have credibility here. I ride the same ridge, but 14 miles east. Maybe we ride sometime?

If you are on yellow toward the bottom of the IMBA switchbacks, there is a 22" log cut through from blocking the trail. I know the guy who cut it.

 

[UtahJoe]

@Johnny Utah

You linked to it...and its exactly what I have an issue with....THIS is not an audit....This is a bunch quoted phrases....When the originators of these items had to apply for this money....they filled out a WHOLE bunch of paper work to explain what they were asking for...That is what I would like to see....When the IRS asks you to produce records...would they be satisfied with this answer below? I dont think so.


I think many Trumpers are forgetting something that is important to their bro dozer driving lifestyle.....We as in the USA are 5% of the worlds population and we use approx. 25% of the worlds resources and produce the second most pollution....Brodozers are a good metaphor for the USA....Giant monster truck rolling along, pumping out black smoke, killing 38in tires, getting 8mpg....And hey, whatever, merica, fuck ya......but we NEED the worlds resources to keep this empire fueled...Drill baby drill is a bunch of bullshit....sure if you want to pay $8-$10 a gallon for gas...and we don't produce anywhere NEAR the amount of resources we need. In history, their are only two ways to fuel an empire....either you try and be nice and buy their stuff...or you invade their country and take it. One of the missions of USAID was to keep Russia, now China from hogging all of the worlds resources in a not so invade your country kinda way....We give countries medicine, health care, food, etc.....but we also influence elections and all kinds of other shady things that I have no idea if they are providing us any real benefit.....so rather than finding out what any of these quoted phrases are doing...we just stopped them. So I guess we'll find out if they we're useful.

 

[SmooveP]

First, I disagree with most the methods how changes are being made. On the other hand, I agree that with most of the issues brought up there is mismanagement, fraud, waste,.....!
For example, the war, the last few years all the talk was about how much more money the Ukraine need to win the war versus now there's more talk about how to end the war? Again, agree or disagree about how Trump goes about it.
The tariffs, i and likely probably many of others was not aware of the current imbalance with lots of countries. American cars to EU 10%, in reverse 2.5% (i assume for arguments sake that is correct). Should that be changed?
There are government programs being cut or drastically reduced now. I believe many will be reinstated by court order again but at least there's more awareness about waste and abuse and some good can more out of it in the long-term.
My question to the majority of contributors her is that everything was just wonderful before and there's no need for change anywhere?

Pete, I can only answer your last question for myself. There's a lot of room in between everything is wonderful and burning the govt to the ground. Regarding your first point, the methods matter in ways beyond the concerns of legality, fairness, etc. My biggest concern with all of this is that we have 2 guys who have made dickishness part of their brand running things. It sends the message that being a dick is OK or even something to aspire to. I'm advocating for less dickishness in the world. Full disclosure: I'm registered as "unaffiliated" and have voted for Republicans in the past.

 

[rjr44]

OK, I will play.

I agree that eliminating the penny is good policy.

Now, maybe you can explain why pardoning 174 FELONS who assaulted LEO with deadly or dangerous weapons is good policy. You know, cuz first board on the MAGA chess team is incapable or afraid to do so.

BTW, I know you ride and participate constructively in the TM process at CR. Just like @Captain Brainstorm guys who do TM have credibility here. I ride the same ridge, but 14 miles east. Maybe we ride sometime?

If you are on yellow toward the bottom of the IMBA switchbacks, there is a 22" log cut through from blocking the trail. I know the guy who cut it.

I never claimed I could or would justify any of the actions, I was literally just asking for some positivity to break up the negativity in this thread, and thank you for doing so!

Devils jerseys also get cred btw!

Definitely up for riding and meeting new folks, I've met so few here (it's a me problem, my schedule, which is my own doing, makes it hard to coordinate w/ other people). Just one ask? No political talk pls? HAHAHA

 

[Santapez]

Pete, I can only answer your last question for myself. There's a lot of room in between everything is wonderful and burning the govt to the ground. Regarding your first point, the methods matter in ways beyond the concerns of legality, fairness, etc. My biggest concern with all of this is that we have 2 guys who have made dickishness part of their brand running things. It sends the message that being a dick is OK or even something to aspire to. I'm advocating for less dickishness in the world. Full disclosure: I'm registered as "unaffiliated" and have voted for Republicans in the past.

The "Burn it all to the ground and grow it again" experiment is interesting to watch. I'm hoping we're all wrong and Trump/Musk are right it's the best way, there's no reason to wish it fails as that means were kind of fucked.

But even if they are right, it's extremely painful to watch the two of them do this due to their personalities, especially Musk.

 

[rjr44]

@Johnny Utah

You linked to it...and its exactly what I have an issue with....THIS is not an audit....This is a bunch quoted phrases....When the originators of these items had to apply for this money....they filled out a WHOLE bunch of paper work to explain what they were asking for...That is what I would like to see....When the IRS asks you to produce records...would they be satisfied with this answer below? I dont think so.
View attachment 255734

I think many Trumpers are forgetting something that is important to their bro dozer driving lifestyle.....We as in the USA are 5% of the worlds population and we use approx. 25% of the worlds resources and produce the second most pollution....Brodozers are a good metaphor for the USA....Giant monster truck rolling along, pumping out black smoke, killing 38in tires, getting 8mpg....And hey, whatever, merica, fuck ya......but we NEED the worlds resources to keep this empire fueled...Drill baby drill is a bunch of bullshit....sure if you want to pay $8-$10 a gallon for gas...and we don't produce anywhere NEAR the amount of resources we need. In history, their are only two ways to fuel an empire....either you try and be nice and buy their stuff...or you invade their country and take it. One of the missions of USAID was to keep Russia, now China from hogging all of the worlds resources in a not so invade your country kinda way....We give countries medicine, health care, food, etc.....but we also influence elections and all kinds of other shady things that I have no idea if they are providing us any real benefit.....so rather than finding out what any of these quoted phrases are doing...we just stopped them. So I guess we'll find out if they we're useful.

Yeah, this is a great example of, depending on the source, it either looks great on paper or awful (like w/ so many things, a lot of it probably falls in the middle of that spectrum?). It's that dang bias thing based on who is doing the reporting. Don't know if we're ever escaping that.

They seem to be taking the band-aid approach, nuke option, completely stop something and IF something noticeably breaks, go back and address.

Maybe with some things that approach can work. But for critical stuff, ummm, that's where it gets scary.

 

[Doom]

Can we talk about white fragility?

How about your white guilt instead?