This Thread Blows - C19 and beyond

Ahhh, the corona virus thread! Lets Have some fun!
Paul H said:
My other question was... When did this start? There were plenty of time to do this.
Hindsight is 20/20... And I don't pretend to be a smart man. All I am saying is that it was possible if there were correct reaction.
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Nope, your’re not a smart man. You can’t just right-click the mouse and start building shit. You’re not alone though, at least 2/3 of the planet is just as ignorant, so you have company. And throughout the first 3 boubonic plagues and every modern pandemic since, there were also smart, forward thinking people around, yet it just kept happening again. Just because we’re now a more modern society doesn’t mean we’ve gotten more intelligent. This WILL HAPPEN AGAIN!
Paul H said:
This is SARS #2... Or 3... Or whatever no?
Eh....
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This is SARS #3 (that we know of....). 1 & 2 killed people too quickly.
Mahnken said:
As I said earlier, 3m did double their production of n95's in January. As I'm sure other manufacturers did as well. But the hospitals are easily going through 10x what they usually would and they never have much more than a weeks supply to begin with. So even doubling production is just a drop in the bucket.
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So who’s fault is it that insufficient masks were available? Not the industries fault, I can tell you that. It’s called supply and demand. The industry builds what they receive a purchase order for, and usually around 10-12wks of safety stock on top of that. Wanna increase demand by 20x? Well, we gots a problem then that can only be solved by building more capacity, which isn’t cheap and takes time (usually measured in 6+ mo). And like the trout guy said, how do you anticipate what you’ll need? What’s to say for the next pandemic we won’t need dialysis machines (great example Trout guy!) or 10M gallons of type 0neg blood? How do you stockpile for the unknown?
 
Fat Trout said:
Hey.....so believe it or not I'll agree with you this time lol. There were warnings and they were not heeded. What else can I (we) say?
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IMO... Who is more right doesn't matter much at this pt. Personally... I'm frustrated and prolly venting more so. However, I am tired of some ppl throwing out excuses left and right. Couldn't be done because of x, y and z. Most of us don't have the expertise to say one or the other and are just commenting from our small niches. Whatever the case, I refuse to believe that nothing could have been done better.
 
Monkey Soup said:
So who’s fault is it that insufficient masks were available? Not the industries fault, I can tell you that. It’s called supply and demand. The industry builds what they receive a purchase order for, and usually around 10-12wks of safety stock on top of that. Wanna increase demand by 20x? Well, we gots a problem then that can only be solved by building more capacity, which isn’t cheap and takes time (usually measured in 6+ mo). And like the trout guy said, how do you anticipate what you’ll need? What’s to say for the next pandemic we won’t need dialysis machines (great example Trout guy!) or 10M gallons of type 0neg blood? How do you stockpile for the unknown?
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I like to blame the hospitals for lack of masks. For one, they want to save a penny per mask so most of it is manufactured overseas. So when China has the outbreak, they are gonna use all their masks and halt production altogether, or stop shipping out because they need them. Then when the outbreak gets here, we're already behind and masks are backordered. 3m is manufactured here and were able to double production. Imagine if we actually made more product here instead of outsourcing for profit and cheaper prices.

We've got way more dialysis machines in this country than ventilators. And the thing with ventilators is they are used for one person for the duration of the time they need it. Dialysis machines are used for two or three hours, then they can be used for someone else, so just keeping them running for 24 hours a day instead of the 8 hour shifts they usually see, triples the amount of people you can treat without actually needing more machines.
 
Monkey Soup said:
Ahhh, the corona virus thread! Lets Have some fun!

Nope, your’re not a smart man. You can’t just right-click the mouse and start building shit. You’re not alone though, at least 2/3 of the planet is just as ignorant, so you have company. And throughout the first 3 boubonic plagues and every modern pandemic since, there were also smart, forward thinking people around, yet it just kept happening again. Just because we’re now a more modern society doesn’t mean we’ve gotten more intelligent. This WILL HAPPEN AGAIN!
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If you are just content with the status quo... I'm not sure what to say to you. Just stay in your cave and wait for the end of the world.
 
Mahnken said:
I like to blame the hospitals for lack of masks. For one, they want to save a penny per mask so most of it is manufactured overseas. So when China has the outbreak, they are gonna use all their masks and halt production altogether, or stop shipping out because they need them. Then when the outbreak gets here, we're already behind and masks are backordered. 3m is manufactured here and were able to double production. Imagine if we actually made more product here instead of outsourcing for profit and cheaper prices.

We've got way more dialysis machines in this country than ventilators. And the thing with ventilators is they are used for one person for the duration of the time they need it. Dialysis machines are used for two or three hours, then they can be used for someone else, so just keeping them running for 24 hours a day instead of the 8 hour shifts they usually see, triples the amount of people you can treat without actually needing more machines.
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Agree, it was the hospitals fault, but then again, they probably had enough of these around for their current demand. Hospitals are run like a business, and they probably weren’t going to carry excess inventory due to cost and space constraints. As for the dialysis machines, same model. Sure we have enough now, but what about when COVID-Kidney comes around? More realistically, what if the next pandemic is bacterial and parasitic? Then everyone will be pointing fingers that we didn’t have enough of a particular antibiotic on stock.

As for bringing production back here, that’s gonna be a tough nut to crack. It’s just cheaper to make almost everything overseas, and just about every business (look at bikes) has changed their model around this. Everyone is cheap and wants to pay as little as possible for everything. This will take years to change. Not to make this political, but the guy in the Whitehouse you all love to hate fired the opening shots at China on this.
 
Off topic on what you all are talking about now, but I’ve seen people implying that the reason america has the most confirmed cases is because we have the most widespread testing. In fact, our testing rate per 1,000 persons is 6th in the world, at a little over 3 tests per 1000 in the population. What concerns me here is that a little over 17% of those who take a test in America test positive for COVID-19, which is the highest rate of countries displayed here other than Italy, where we all the know the situation is dire.
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phillychris498 said:
Off topic on what you all are talking about now, but I’ve seen people implying that the reason america has the most confirmed cases is because we have the most widespread testing. In fact, our testing rate per 1,000 persons is 6th in the world, at a little over 3 tests per 1000 in the population. What concerns me here is that a little over 17% of those who take a test in America test positive for COVID-19, which is the highest rate of countries displayed here other than Italy, where we all the know the situation is dire.
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we are testing people because they are sick -
we are getting a higher percentage because we are vetting - testing capacity is going up, that will lower the percentage positive?
 
Paul H said:
Whatever the case, I refuse to believe that nothing could have been done better.
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Different, not necessarily better. It seems like everything is being done to not infringe on our freedoms. They can try to do things, like shut down transportation, bridges, ground all flights, etc. So far, it seems like they aren't. Would it be better if we instituted martial law and shot people if they left the house? Probably not. Would it cause an uprising? Maybe. Would it help stop the spread? Yes. There's no single answer to this.
 
Magic said:
Different, not necessarily better. It seems like everything is being done to not infringe on our freedoms. They can try to do things, like shut down transportation, bridges, ground all flights, etc. So far, it seems like they aren't. Would it be better if we instituted martial law and shot people if they left the house? Probably not. Would it cause an uprising? Maybe. Would it help stop the spread? Yes. There's no single answer to this.
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Freedom? LOL
Sorry... maybe I am too cynical but that would not be my guess... at least not the primary.
Why did China (if they did) falsely report their numbers?
Why did the US want to reopen for Easter?

Economy.... money.
 
Paul H said:
Google told me $250k. Definitely not chump change but far cry from $6M

https://www.wired.com/story/decades-offshoring-led-mask-shortage-pandemic/
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Oh yea? That’s just the machine for final assembly. What’s the throughput, and how many of these machines do you need? Probably more than 1. And how about the machines for all the other raw materials and components of the mask prior to final assembly? How about the time it takes to order, make one, ship it, install it, and qualify it? Making shit is complicated.
 
serviceguy said:
I meant the machines used in your business. I don't believe any business would keep a $250K machine as spare just in case unless they know there's going to be a surge in demand.
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Even if not the machinery. I would assume the operators would know which components are frequent to malfunction or breakage. They would at least stock spare parts to get back running on the ASAP.
 
Paul H said:
Freedom? LOL
Sorry... maybe I am too cynical but that would not be my guess... at least not the primary.
Why did China (if they did) falsely report their numbers?
Why did the US want to reopen for Easter?

Economy.... money.
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I believe for China there's a lot more at stake than just money. At least for the elites of the communist party. @Magic probably knows a thing or two about how the communist party worked in Eastern Europe.

Paul H said:
Even if not the machinery. I would assume the operators would know which components are frequent to malfunction or breakage. They would at least stock spare parts to get back running on the ASAP.
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Are you evading the question? What are we talking about, sewing machines?

I don't know the specific PPE making machines, but with regard to spare parts, as I mentioned earlier, it may not be convenient or even logical to store some parts because they're too expensive if they're custom parts. If the government deems the product a national security issue then there maybe stronger motivation to stock up parts. Obviously there's always the risk of price gauging and parts that after a while may turn out not to be functional because of the good old "when the hell is anybody going to find out" principle.

It would make a lot more sense to me that instead of demanding the government, private industry and what not to think ahead of what we may need if we don't stick to common sense and safety guidelines we...well, stick to common sense and safety guidelines.
 
Monkey Soup said:
Oh yea? That’s just the machine for final assembly. What’s the throughput, and how many of these machines do you need? Probably more than 1. And how about the machines for all the other raw materials and components of the mask prior to final assembly? How about the time it takes to order, make one, ship it, install it, and qualify it? Making shit is complicated.
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Haven't heard of shortage of raw materials. Maybe you know best.
No one said production is a simple process. From what I know from my industry, there are rare occasions where a production factory runs at 100% capacity. You can't increase production without increasing capacity. For 3M to double their production on the quick, I would have to imagine that they were not at 100% to begin with so the capacity was there. Just unused until recently. But thats just my guess.
 
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