Cars, it's electric! Do Do Do

Santapez said:
"You guys are comparing your $15 Timex you bought at Walmart 20 years ago and the $20 for the 4 replacement batteries you spent during that time and how a Rolex is a waste. But I buy Omega watches, so please stop saying the $15 Timex is fine. I never have to replace the batteries in this watch as it's an automatic winding watch."
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Hope you don't have to service that Omega. It's worse than the the price of an oil change on a GT3.
 
shrpshtr325 said:
yea that certainly helps, but even so you can get the 5qt jugs for ~$20 if you have to buy them, i would need two for most changes with an almost 8qt oil sump, but its still not a huge expense.

even at $25/jug or $50/ change, if you pay $15 for a filter $65/10000 miles is $0.006/mile driven, anyone who tells you oil changes are a significant cost as far as maintenance goes is either severly overpaying, hasnt run the numbers, or is a fool
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10 minute oil change place costs about $125 for an oil change on my Suburban. People do this crap themselves? I guess this is why I make several thousand a month fixing flats at the shop. People are lazy.
 
bergsnj said:
Its 2021, we dont just burn coal and let the smoke out un-treated. The emissions from coal and natural gas power plants is treated with scrubbers and other technology before it goes out the stack. Did you know that the power you are using right at this moment might come from the Covanta co-generation plant that burns GARBAGE to make heat/steam to produce power.
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You may wish to quiet down before you get canceled. Logic is frowned upon in NJ and much of the US these days. Things are evil when the news tells us because they only report facts and we sheep are supposed to believe it. PS when a mountain of dead EV batteries forms somewhere, we will not speak of that.
 
So lots of the opinions here the past couple of days. No real surprises. Gives one an idea of some of the pros and cons. And like most debates, facts and figures will vary(for each side). Over the next 10-20 years there will be an increase in EVs and like some folks mentioned will increase the stress on the grid. I remember reading an article years ago comparing charging a normal sized EV to running a household refrigerator for the day. Will changes in appliance efficiency help offset some of the stress on the grid? Maybe( not sure). For example, I will eventually need a new more efficient refrigerator that will possibly use half as mush electricity as my old one. That doesn’t take into account other things such as more efficient air conditioners, lighting, and appliances in general. We are a consumer based society so all this stuff has a life cycle. Then looking ahead to changes with electrical use in general. For example, the past year many companies realized that many(not all) people can work from home. Looking ahead (once again) 10-20 years and companies will continue to use less office space. Less transportation and power/resources needed… . Working from home the past year, I used a little more power, but have not seen a significant increase in my utility bills. Only an increase in my grocery bills due to grazing😁. Then a few people mentioned that resources will simply change from oil to coal as more stress on the grid. Then I thought about that point as that was my initial reaction as well. Looked at the Ford Lightning and it gets the equivalent to 85 MPG. I think an F150 averages about 18 mpg but does not go 0-60 in 4.5 seconds like the Lightning. Tesla Plaid 0-60 in approx 2 seconds so I can’t argue that EVs are slow or use as much energy as ICE. And some say mileage will vary for EV, well the same goes for ICE. Then the point of impact on the environment after EV has reached the end of its life span. Hopefully producers of EV and ICE will both find ways to use more recyclable materials. Junk yards have been around long before EVs. When I was a teenager in the 80s my generation didn’t care much about the environment or use of resources. My favorite line from the movie Robo cop was the guy that asked for a car that “goes really fast, and gets really shitty gas mileage”. 😂
 
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eventually they will build the batteries to be recycled. Look at the lead-acid battery loop.
Our society demands it. Sure, it isn't a problem now, just an ominous warning.
It will be heeded. You can bet there is someone trying to figure out how to become a billionaire from it.

Recycling is usually less expensive than mining - although lithium (like sodium) can be evaporated out of a water as a salt.
- i did a HBR case on some guys making sea salt, it was hysterical, they had pools that they opened for sea water to flood,
then they'd close the gate, let it evaporate, and pick the salt out with a skid steer. at $0.10/lb they were making millions a year.
actual lithium would explode when exposed to air - so there is that (so does sodium)

Might be interesting to see if there are 40mile range cars for commuting/errands - kept very light, and mission specific.
very cheap, quick to recharge. I always thought something enclosed, a little larger than a can-am, might work.
or something transformable. ie a motorcycle that docked into something larger with a long range battery
and more seats. again, mission specific.

Maybe the whole car ownership model will change? Zip cars are popular.
When they are self-driving, and the user can summon one on demand, or schedule one (meaning cheaper) which is
mission specific (take me to the mall, i have skis, or a bike, or moving a couch) - that is a game changer.
probably a subscription model ?

What about something where you drive the first and last "mile" and the vehicle gets on a track/sled/train to be moved in a more efficient
(meaning average of all) way? something like getting on a gondola?

Sure I like driving, but getting to citi field sucks. I'd rather sit in the back and watch the 3rd season of dark or vanilla sky
to try to figure out what just happened.

best part is that it is so new, that nothing is written in stone. Future is bright! like LED bright.
 
Something else that came to mind. Most of us on this thread are middle age(or older) and enjoy ICE cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, moto, quads and planes(@Patrick all of the above) as well as the classics. Looking at the current teenage population, the thing that matters most is their phones. When I turned 16, I went to the DMV on my birthday(could barley wait). Got my car and motorcycle license as soon as possible and used both. Most of the kids now see driving purely as transportation. I expect they won’t think twice about their autonomous transport module so they can keep staring at their devices. They plug in their phones so why not plug in their cars as well. Or I guess the next step is wireless charging so all they have to do it’s drive up to the pad(maybe it’s already out there not up on it that much). The EV vs ICE will matter much less to them than many of us boomers, I mean folks here. And yes there are still plenty of young ICE enthusiasts out there but will adapt easier than us. I have never stated what my choice is but rather look at history, fact patterns and human behavior. I merely mentioned earlier in this thread that I’m more open minded than I used to be. Currently it appears inevitable unless hydrogen fuel cells make tremendous gains overnight. I guess when I get an EV at some point I won’t need one that sounds like a horse(get a horse-just kidding) but hope I can get some type of app to make it sound like a Pony, preferably a BOSS 302!
 
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THATmanMANNY said:
@Santapez agreement with some of you post but also not sure where this conspiracy is coming from. For clarifciation, there is no maintenance cost. Rotate tires and change cabin filter. If there is something to fix then yes, it may be expensive but any expensive car is expensive to fix (as you note). Sister's 2018 BMW X3 fuel pump and control module failed. I didn't ask how much. My guess is $1,000+

And it seems like you are just referencing the early Model S with the 1st gen MCUs. The cost is $1,500 to replace with MCU2 and get up to speed with a Model 3/Y. That's if it fails.

Battery failure rate.... (I'll try to dig up a vetted source)
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@Santapez another follow up. I forgot that Tesla issued a recall for an enhanced eMMC. I just got the letter that they are avaialable. Previous leett said blah blah blah hold tight while they are avaialable. Also, if you did pay for a MCU replacement they will reimburse you too. Forgot about that one that was issued earlier this year too.
 
rick81721 said:
Mustang Mach-E is C&D's EV of the year

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36877450/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-ev-of-the-year/
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Will be interesting to hear the piped in sound that Ford programmed in the Mach-E. Here is my rental in Florida the past week(not my bike, borrowed, but also a Suburban-odd coincidence) as the airport was out of mini vans. Averaged just under 21 mpg but figure an ICE minivan does not get much more with a full load and 6 passengers. Thinking an E-Suburban (when they start producing them) will get the equivalent of 85mpg.7DDF2F89-DEC3-489B-9F06-A336673A9786.jpegA0CDA1A6-7F13-48DD-B4C4-F46BAC95D2BB.png
 
This is a more than fair deal. I would make a lateral move and “refresh” my car but don’t feel like hassling selling, titling, traveling etc

for those thinking about a new 3 or Y. This should be in your sights too.
Signed, SemiSEXYR

Ludicrous Model S
 
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