Is strava going from suck to blow?

[Norm]

To me this seems like just a user agreement thing. Sort of a line in the sand. I don't think they are cutting off API access. But they are changing the licensing agreements.

I don't think this impacts API post data calls. Basically, your rides will still upload. Them keeping your data is not in question here.

And it's just saying, basically, "If you use our data for your site, you can't base your site's business model on that data." <-- feels like a strongly-worded way to say they want to atop people making a profit on their stuff.

So any training peaks-type company is likely in trouble. They'll probably start to shut down API gets, or data pulls, from select orgs. Like I said, TF would be in jeopardy here, IMO. Is it high on the list? Hard to say.

I assume they have a handful of orgs in mind that are probably doing well with Strava data, and as a business decision, they want to stop that. If that's all this turns out to be, I don't see a problem with that. It is, after all, proprietary data.

If I am wrong and they eradicate all API posts and gets, then this will almost certainly kill their existing user base. Like considerably. Prices will blow up, and people will not want to pay $400 a year for Strava.

So it'll be interesting.

 

[Cassinonorth]

This feels like a move by a company that is really confident in their position in the market (which is silly) or really worried about their position in the market (likely).

This is Twitter becoming X type stuff where it just opens the door for a new app to swoop in and take the reigns from a legacy social media app. Too many companies are in the internet graveyard because they thought they were untouchable. The tie ins were a very easy way to keep Strava integral to the data tie in world and keep people on their platform even if they never actively used some of their features. This just opened the door to leave it all behind. Good riddance.

 

[Patrick]

I read it as not combining pulled dataacross multiple users, and only displaying it to the person that owns(created?) it.

Garmin and wahoo can still push the data in.

I'm wondering if it is more traffic planning and Discovery? Not sure about anonymized data tho

Veloviewer has shut down most of its cross athlete stuff.

Maybe it is less public facing uses that are the problem?

 

[Santapez]

To me this seems like just a user agreement thing. Sort of a line in the sand. I don't think they are cutting off API access. But they are changing the licensing agreements.

I don't think this impacts API post data calls. Basically, your rides will still upload. Them keeping your data is not in question here.

And it's just saying, basically, "If you use our data for your site, you can't base your site's business model on that data." <-- feels like a strongly-worded way to say they want to atop people making a profit on their stuff.

So any training peaks-type company is likely in trouble. They'll probably start to shut down API gets, or data pulls, from select orgs. Like I said, TF would be in jeopardy here, IMO. Is it high on the list? Hard to say.

I assume they have a handful of orgs in mind that are probably doing well with Strava data, and as a business decision, they want to stop that. If that's all this turns out to be, I don't see a problem with that. It is, after all, proprietary data.

If I am wrong and they eradicate all API posts and gets, then this will almost certainly kill their existing user base. Like considerably. Prices will blow up, and people will not want to pay $400 a year for Strava.

So it'll be interesting.

That all makes sense if they were clear about it. DCRainmaker and TR said that it wasn't fully clear but basically they can pull the data, just can't do much with it.

They gave everyone 30 days to either stop pulling the data along with historical data, or modify their apps/back-end. 30 days to re-do that while having the holidays in the mix.

Probably not THAT interesting as I mentioned before, not really going to affect most people unless you have a coach looking at your data on another app or whatnot.

Overall it just seems like a weird business decision without much transparency and is working against, not with apps that have synergy (and also possibly compete) with Strava.

 

[Jeremy]

but I'm assuming the people affected by this are Apple Watch users

That’s probably like 90% of the Strava base.

 

[Santapez]

That’s probably like 90% of the Strava base.

That's why I mentioned them. But I'm sure 90 of those users then won't even notice.

It's going to be Strava users that setup Strava to connect to another app that now has issues. How many Apple Watch users log all their runs religiously on Strava and wouldn't notice vs Apple Watch Strava users that sync to TrainingPeaks and have their coach look at their data?

Granted I'm sure it's still a sizable # and they'll wake up one day going WTF. And all they'll know is Strava broke something and not give a shit about why.

 

[Jeremy]

That's why I mentioned them. But I'm sure 90 of those users then won't even notice.

It's going to be Strava users that setup Strava to connect to another app that now has issues. How many Apple Watch users log all their runs religiously on Strava and wouldn't notice vs Apple Watch Strava users that sync to TrainingPeaks and have their coach look at their data?

Granted I'm sure it's still a sizable # and they'll wake up one day going WTF. And all they'll know is Strava broke something and not give a shit about why.

I’m lost.

I felt like I had a clue what was happening after I watched the DC Rainmaker video yesterday, but reading this thread has completely confused me.

 

[Santapez]

I’m lost.

I felt like I had a clue what was happening after I watched the DC Rainmaker video yesterday, but reading this thread has completely confused me.

I read the article last night, just watched the video at 2x speed.

Summary I see:

-Apps can still pull the data.
-Apps can't show one user's data to someone else. Coach can't read a client's data, or apps that do "Leaderboard" type data aggregation can't use the data
-No "Machine Learning" can be used on the data from Strava
-Apps have 30 days from Nov 11th to make the changes.

 

[Cassinonorth]

The theory of them adding their own coaching (AI based??) seems to feel right trying to read between the lines.

Or maybe adding Strava Coach accounts for a price, I'm sure.

 

[iman29]

I'd like to see the percentages, but I'm assuming the people affected by this are Apple Watch users. People with Coros/Garmin/Wahoo/Etc should have easy API tie-ins to things like TrainerRoad, Intervals.ICU, TrainingPeaks etc.

I'm sure if you're using the Strava app on your phone, Fitbit or whatnot you're not worrying too much about integration into apps or have a coach who would review your data.

agreed. Most of the major players already have direct integrations in place, which to me seems more likely those folks will be like "well what to I need Strava for anyway" if my data is already in Garmin Connect and I can send it to Trainer road myself or vice versa.

As a side note, and maybe unrelated, I dumped my Fitbit about 9 months ago and have been using a Garmin watch for non cycling stuff (walks, workouts, sleep, HR etc...) because the Strava/Fitbit integration stopped working where GPS based activities no longer properly syncing.

So TLDR, Garmin Connect really has ALL my health and activity data, and Strava is just extra and more popular place to track it.

Now I really can't understand this move by Strava to further alienate their premium customers like me who despite other major issues in the past (remember #bringbackchronologicalorder) that didn't take customer feedback into account.

 

[Santapez]

So TLDR, Garmin Connect really has ALL my health and activity data, and Strava is just extra and more popular place to track it.

All I care about is if other apps can take my Garmin Connect data and swap the Strava title into it. I'm pretty sure both Intervals.icu and TrainerRoad do this as they say the Strava modified data isn't ideal. Although even that may have to stop under the new licensing rules?

 

[Red Mosquito]

I don't see a problem with that. It is, after all, proprietary data.

I I pivot on this though a little bit, it’s our data on their proprietary platform. A good middle ground with much less of a shock to the user base would be keep all of these options open for subscribing members.

I agree that the limitation seems to be on other platforms pulling Strava data versus other platforms pushing data into Strava, but I see that push support going by the wayside from any other platforms if they are not able to get anything out of it.

I think in the end, I’ll continue to pay for Trailforks because I think that’s a platform that provides a unique service to the community, whereas Strava is replaceable by any other GPS recording platform. Sure the social aspect won’t be the same, but in the end, who really needs that shit?

 

[Ian F]

The problem, and DCRainmaker makes the point well, it's all as clear as mud.

If Strava just came out and said something like that, it would be acceptable. But they hide their intentions, give minimal notice to the apps that use the API and piss off their users at the same time.

It seems to be corporate SOP to hide or obscure true intentions whenever possible. They usually won't outright lie, but hiding some of the facts can definitely be on the table. It usually makes no sense... That's why whenever I see some sort of whacked policy change, I look for some monetary reason in between the lines. And some 30 years of working in corporate America has made me more than a little jaded...

I also accept I could be wildly off base. Hence why I said it's a WAG (wild-ass guess).

 

[JonF]

This could also be coming on the heels of the recent fiasco where certain international political figureheads whereabouts were able to be tracked by just following thier bodyguards off-duty strava activities. While strava can lock down thier own sensitive data, they can't control that same sensitive data once out in the wild.

 

[Cassinonorth]

This could also be coming on the heels of the recent fiasco where certain international political figureheads whereabouts were able to be tracked by just following thier bodyguards off-duty strava activities. While strava can lock down thier own sensitive data, they can't control that same sensitive data once out in the wild.

People don't protect their data nearly enough. Strava is just about the best place to find super expensive bikes to steal.

Let me post a picture of my $10k bike I leave in my unsecured garage, here's the exact coordinates.

 

[Santapez]

Some clarification, and maybe backpedaling?

 

[iman29]

People don't protect their data nearly enough. Strava is just about the best place to find super expensive bikes to steal.

Let me post a picture of my $10k bike I leave in my unsecured garage, here's the exact coordinates.

a not well known setting in Strava thats been around for a while is a security perimeter so you can hide your start and finish location within a certain radius. Ive got mine set to about a mile out. I also combine this with the setting where I have to grant permission for someone to follow me on Strava. This gets rid of the spammers and fake accounts from some foreign country that follows 98765679 people and only has 1 follower.

That doesnt prevent someone from googling your name and finding out all the rest of your public info, but its at least one layer of privacy re: Strava.

a new element to this (announced a few weeks ago) is the section below it which allows to hide/limit more per activity stats.

 

[JDurk]

a not well known setting in Strava thats been around for a while is a security perimeter so you can hide your start and finish location within a certain radius. Ive got mine set to about a mile out. I also combine this with the setting where I have to grant permission for someone to follow me on Strava. This gets rid of the spammers and fake accounts from some foreign country that follows 98765679 people and only has 1 follower.

That doesnt prevent someone from googling your name and finding out all the rest of your public info, but its at least one layer of privacy re: Strava.

a new element to this (announced a few weeks ago) is the section below it which allows to hide/limit more per activity stats.

View attachment 251169

Been using the security perimeter for awhile. I selected to have all my Activities set to "Only Me" then chose edit to "Followers" or "Everyone" for what can be seen.

 

[Santapez]

a not well known setting in Strava thats been around for a while is a security perimeter so you can hide your start and finish location within a certain radius. Ive got mine set to about a mile out. I also combine this with the setting where I have to grant permission for someone to follow me on Strava. This gets rid of the spammers and fake accounts from some foreign country that follows 98765679 people and only has 1 follower.

That doesnt prevent someone from googling your name and finding out all the rest of your public info, but its at least one layer of privacy re: Strava.

a new element to this (announced a few weeks ago) is the section below it which allows to hide/limit more per activity stats.

View attachment 251169

Also, put your house in an LLC shell corporation.

 

[Cassinonorth]

a not well known setting in Strava thats been around for a while is a security perimeter so you can hide your start and finish location within a certain radius. Ive got mine set to about a mile out. I also combine this with the setting where I have to grant permission for someone to follow me on Strava. This gets rid of the spammers and fake accounts from some foreign country that follows 98765679 people and only has 1 follower.

That doesnt prevent someone from googling your name and finding out all the rest of your public info, but its at least one layer of privacy re: Strava.

a new element to this (announced a few weeks ago) is the section below it which allows to hide/limit more per activity stats.

View attachment 251169

Yep, I don't use my real name on their either.

Hiding the Start time has been a boon to my WFH rides.