Let's see your EMTBs!

I got to try a Pivot shuttle SL back to back with my shuttle LT the other day. It certainly felt like more of a bike than my LT does. Much easier to move around and felt much more like my firebird than the LT does. However, it was also WAY less powerful on the climbs....we were lapping glen park and it had no ability to keep up with my LT on climbs....So I could see that being annoying if you are riding with other ebikers. I would like to try one on some really technical stuff.....I feel like this is where my LT is less than optimal being harder to move around and easy to spin the rear tire. I feel like it might be better for that kind of riding. One or the other, id rather just have my full power ebike and do an ebike ride.
 
Steve Vai said:
It’s surprisingly easy to overpower an SL bike and have no assist advantage. Especially where you want the assist most, steep climbs. Unless you’re riding alone in a primarily flat area, always go full power. At least until the 4th Gen bikes drop, then an SL will have enough juice to be a contender.
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it's easy for you - sure, I can hit 20 on the flat and the motor cuts out, but i'm not climbing a trail at 20mph. ain't going my usual 2-3 either. 🚴
 
I'm curious to see how the new crop of 85NM/603WH low-40s lb. bikes compare to full-power e-bikes. After watching a couple of videos on the new Orbea Rise LT, it definitely looks promising.
 
"Hey Ian, whatcha eating there?"

"Crow... I'm eating crow..."

"How's it taste?"

"Slightly bitter... slightly sweet..."

Yesterday I got a text from my friend Frankie, "Would you be interested in trading the Specialized for my Heckler? My shoulders are borked and I just can't ride that heavy bike anymore..."

"Sure... I'm interested."

So we met at Pennypack and swapped pedals. About halfway through the ride, we swapped grips as well since neither bike had my prefered grips and the PNW grips on the Specialized were bothering her. The Specialized feels small to her as well, but she is a little shorter than I am and she's hoping the maybe a 50mm stem will make the fit better for her. Her Heckler is a Med and is just big enough for me to be comfortable on it, although I'd get a Large if I were buying one. It's also a 2021 model year and not a 2019 as I thought.

1716660587372.png


She has changed a few things on the bike - the Lyrik fork, I9 wheels, saddle, more XC oriented tires more appropriate for the way she rides and the trails she rides on. She is a good descender but isn't a former DH racer and doesn't quite attack descents like I often do.

So the "eating crow" part? The weight. I really though the weight would bother me. It didn't. When I wanted to hop over something, I didn't have any trouble with it. The bike carries the weight fairly low, so it handles fairly normal. The only time I really noticed the weight was post-ride and I had to lift it up into the back of my van. Everyone who said the weight won't matter as much as you think was right and I was wrong.

The Specialized was fun, but the power this bike has is fun on a different level. I spent most of the ride in Eco mode and rarely felt the need to put it in Trail or Boost. Because of that, I was still getting quite a workout - I spent over 40% of the hour and a half ride with my HR over 170.

I'm not sure Frankie will make the trade, she wants more time on the Specialized. I can totally understand if she doesn't. The Heckler is arguably a much better E-bike. Or at least a bike better at doing "e-bike things" if that makes any sense. I had no issues with the power delivery of the EP8 motor.
 
Ian F said:
"Hey Ian, whatcha eating there?"

"Crow... I'm eating crow..."

"How's it taste?"

"Slightly bitter... slightly sweet..."

Yesterday I got a text from my friend Frankie, "Would you be interested in trading the Specialized for my Heckler? My shoulders are borked and I just can't ride that heavy bike anymore..."

"Sure... I'm interested."

So we met at Pennypack and swapped pedals. About halfway through the ride, we swapped grips as well since neither bike had my prefered grips and the PNW grips on the Specialized were bothering her. The Specialized feels small to her as well, but she is a little shorter than I am and she's hoping the maybe a 50mm stem will make the fit better for her. Her Heckler is a Med and is just big enough for me to be comfortable on it, although I'd get a Large if I were buying one. It's also a 2021 model year and not a 2019 as I thought.

View attachment 239127

She has changed a few things on the bike - the Lyrik fork, I9 wheels, saddle, more XC oriented tires more appropriate for the way she rides and the trails she rides on. She is a good descender but isn't a former DH racer and doesn't quite attack descents like I often do.

So the "eating crow" part? The weight. I really though the weight would bother me. It didn't. When I wanted to hop over something, I didn't have any trouble with it. The bike carries the weight fairly low, so it handles fairly normal. The only time I really noticed the weight was post-ride and I had to lift it up into the back of my van. Everyone who said the weight won't matter as much as you think was right and I was wrong.

The Specialized was fun, but the power this bike has is fun on a different level. I spent most of the ride in Eco mode and rarely felt the need to put it in Trail or Boost. Because of that, I was still getting quite a workout - I spent over 40% of the hour and a half ride with my HR over 170.

I'm not sure Frankie will make the trade, she wants more time on the Specialized. I can totally understand if she doesn't. The Heckler is arguably a much better E-bike. Or at least a bike better at doing "e-bike things" if that makes any sense. I had no issues with the power delivery of the EP8 motor.
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I don’t get the low power thing, but I’ve also owned a KTM 450 and logged serious miles on it in the way that it was intended.
 
I think the power mode heavily depends on the ride you're doing and who you are riding with. Tom is a very strong rider and in Eco I could keep up with him without working too hard. When I started working hard, I was able to easily drop him. Frankie on the lower power bike couldn't really keep up at all, but I think some or most of that was simply not being comfortable with the bike. But when she did rides on the Heckler with our friends who are also on e-bikes (and also really fit), she is mostly in Trail and Boost mode to keep up.
 
I usually have my Cannondale in Tour Mode, gives me a steady workout and good battery life. MTB mode is great, but I find battery life takes a hit. Turbo mode when needed, which isn't much.

Nice seeing Pennypack mentioned, I'm a short hop to the Pennypack Rails to Trails trail, which connects with Pennypack Park at Lorimer Park. Makes for a nice out the door loop, Pennypack trail to the end, cut into Lorimer Park, head over to Pennypack at Pine Rd. and take the mtb trail to Roosevelt Blvd, cross at the foot bridge there, then back using the mtb trail on the other side of the creek to Pine rd, then back to Lorimer and the Rails to Trail trail and home.
 
Test ride #2 at Nesh on Sat.

1716901564281.png


The goal was to see how many laps I could get on one battery charge. I managed three laps before my upper body gave out. I'm not sure if it's the weight of the bike, how Frankie has her brakes set up, the PNW grips or a combination of all three, but by the end of the second lap, my hands and arms were killing me. I pushed through a 3rd lap but despite having 2/5 bars of battery left, had to throw in the towel. Frankie's women's Ergon seat was also killing me (after 30 years, my butt is molded to fit a Flite). For the next ride I'll swap out the seat and grips along with moving the brake levers to a more one-finger-friendly position on the bars.

It's interesting to look at the lap times:
1716901886057.png


The first lap was mostly in Eco mode with the climbs in Trail. The second lap, I used Boost for most the climbs, but oddly enough the 3rd lap I didn't use Boost, just Trail yet that was my fastest lap.

Considering I struggle to complete a lap in under an hour these days, being able to do three laps in just over 2 hours was fun.
 
Ian F said:
Test ride #2 at Nesh on Sat.

View attachment 239356

The goal was to see how many laps I could get on one battery charge. I managed three laps before my upper body gave out. I'm not sure if it's the weight of the bike, how Frankie has her brakes set up, the PNW grips or a combination of all three, but by the end of the second lap, my hands and arms were killing me. I pushed through a 3rd lap but despite having 2/5 bars of battery left, had to throw in the towel. Frankie's women's Ergon seat was also killing me (after 30 years, my butt is molded to fit a Flite). For the next ride I'll swap out the seat and grips along with moving the brake levers to a more one-finger-friendly position on the bars.

It's interesting to look at the lap times:
View attachment 239357

The first lap was mostly in Eco mode with the climbs in Trail. The second lap, I used Boost for most the climbs, but oddly enough the 3rd lap I didn't use Boost, just Trail yet that was my fastest lap.

Considering I struggle to complete a lap in under an hour these days, being able to do three laps in just over 2 hours was fun.
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You should be almost to the point, now I understand why matty says skip the mid power and go straight to full power 😉

Just like weight doesn't matter
And no such thing as too much suspension 😁
 
mattybfat said:
You should be almost to the point, now I understand why matty says skip the mid power and go straight to full power 😉

Just like weight doesn't matter
And no such thing as too much suspension 😁
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Yeah, I am leaning in that direction. So far, I'm enjoying the Heckler. It the trade goes through, then I'll make some changes to this bike: probably GX AXS and Shimano brakes (to match the rest of my bikes). Frankie has already said she wants the fork, so we'd swap those over. If she doesn't like the AXS shifting, probably swap that as well.

If she doesn't go for the trade (which if I was her, I would not), then a Heckler will definitely be near the top of the shopping list. Probably a Large. The question is whether to go with the larger battery the Heckler has or the Bullet with more travel, but has a smaller battery...
 
Why in the heck would anyone want to add axs? All the replacement parts are crazy expensive. Chains, cassettes and derailleur are double or triple the price of gx parts. That and the fact the derailleur tension spring is way to weak. Tons of chain noise. The first thing I have done to all my bikes is I change the hub driver body to HG so I can run the cheap steel NX cassette. Alloy cogs do not play well with e bike watts. Jmo…
 
Either AXS or I replace the entire drivetrain with Shimano. I'm not a fan of the SRAM trigger shifter. Which is one reason I like the older AXS shifter - it feels like a Shimano shifter when I use it. All of my mtn bikes are Shimano 12 spd (w/ AXS or XTR shifting) and I prefer to keep everything compatible to make spare stock easier.
 
I like the sram gx e-bike shifter, It only lets you shift one gear shift per shift. Regular multi shifts per push is how you kill derailleurs and cassettes on an e bike. Torque > e bike drivetrains. Alloy cogs on cassettes just don’t last long on a e bike. That’s why I prefer the nx Cassette. If you go with Shimano, look at the link glide, cheaper Beefer cassettes and chains.
 
scott62 said:
Why in the heck would anyone want to add axs? All the replacement parts are crazy expensive. Chains, cassettes and derailleur are double or triple the price of gx parts. That and the fact the derailleur tension spring is way to weak. Tons of chain noise. The first thing I have done to all my bikes is I change the hub driver body to HG so I can run the cheap steel NX cassette. Alloy cogs do not play well with e bike watts. Jmo…
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Sames HG and 10spd micro shift, both bikes current microshifts already out lived the original crappy shimano xt 12spd. Micro shift also has the single digit e shifter as well. No pain in the pocket for smashed parts.
 
scott62 said:
Why in the heck would anyone want to add axs? All the replacement parts are crazy expensive. Chains, cassettes and derailleur are double or triple the price of gx parts. That and the fact the derailleur tension spring is way to weak. Tons of chain noise. The first thing I have done to all my bikes is I change the hub driver body to HG so I can run the cheap steel NX cassette. Alloy cogs do not play well with e bike watts. Jmo…
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Transmission was surely designed for e bikes in mind. You can shift it under power and in complains zero. I don't prefer the newer shifter, so I run the eagle axs shifter with the improved paddle. Every time i ride with someone with a shimano drivetrain on an ebike it sounds like they are killing the bike the whole time.
 
jdog said:
Transmission was surely designed for e bikes in mind. You can shift it under power and in complains zero. I don't prefer the newer shifter, so I run the eagle axs shifter with the improved paddle. Every time i ride with someone with a shimano drivetrain on an ebike it sounds like they are killing the bike the whole time.
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Transmission was designed to separate money from riders. There is nothing that you can tell me that changes the fact servo shifting just adds more cost. Sorry, every one I see on the trail with servo shifting there is one question that runs through my mind……trust fund or moron. If the bike came with servo shifting, my question is why did you buy a bike that costs more to maintain and had a higher base price? Don’t worry, I am sure I am the only person that thinks this way.
 
scott62 said:
I like the sram gx e-bike shifter, It only lets you shift one gear shift per shift. Regular multi shifts per push is how you kill derailleurs and cassettes on an e bike. Torque > e bike drivetrains. Alloy cogs on cassettes just don’t last long on a e bike. That’s why I prefer the nx Cassette. If you go with Shimano, look at the link glide, cheaper Beefer cassettes and chains.
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I remember when e-mtbs first came out, many higher spec models came with a NX cassette. People were complaining about low end components on such expensive bikes. The manufacturers said the super light components were not strong enough for an e-bike.
Something obviously changed over the past few years.
 
scott62 said:
Transmission was designed to separate money from riders. There is nothing that you can tell me that changes the fact servo shifting just adds more cost. Sorry, every one I see on the trail with servo shifting there is one question that runs through my mind……trust fund or moron. If the bike came with servo shifting, my question is why did you buy a bike that costs more to maintain and had a higher base price? Don’t worry, I am sure I am the only person that thinks this way.
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Why do people buy sports cars, luxury cars, high end appliances or McMansions? All have a higher base price and are more costly to maintain.

And, btw, transmission works flawlessly on an ebike.
 
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