Mooch Madness ??

Can someone tell me why this race is so expensive? 50 bucks for a XC length race is unheard of unless it's a national or World Cup event. There's no cash payout for Masters and Singlespeed, and no free food (according to the bikereg page). So WTF??? Is the BSA charging some huge fee for hosting the event?
 
thedoner said:
Can someone tell me why this race is so expensive? 50 bucks for a XC length race is unheard of unless it's a national or World Cup event. There's no cash payout for Masters and Singlespeed, and no free food (according to the bikereg page). So WTF??? Is the BSA charging some huge fee for hosting the event?
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Love you too G.

Originally this was going to be an endurance event, similar to last year but a different format. We had some people register early, and the feedback was that Mooch was too intimidating, so we dialed it back a bit and made it more xc-length to try and get more people interested. At that point, some people had paid, and the price was set. So it was what it was. I understand that it's an expensive race, but we wanted to put on something that people would not be intimidated by so we changed the format.

I want to offer some food option but without the numbers I can't do that. If we get a critical mass by next week I may be able to offer something in the cafeteria for racers. At this stage I'm still looking at a several thousand dollar loss on this race.

Assuming this race exists next year, I think we need to either go massive or go short track. So $75 or $15. Trying to split the difference does not appear to be the trick.

Thanks for all who are coming out to support. It is greatly appreciated.
 
My personal choice would be ST b/c CX season is coming, but I appreciate the effort of putting on a race in mooch. It has been way too long since there has been a XC race at mooch.
 
I think this race format will appeal to a lot of regular riders who cannot afford to train at the level of the serious endurance racers. I for one think that it is great but it needs a marketing push because Allamuchy still can be intimidating to some.
I think there are a large number of riders in the north new jersey area that do not frequent these forums and these guys have no way of knowing about these races. Where there any flyers about this race at the local bike shops? Any signs at the nearby trailheads?
I would hate for another allamuchy race to fail. I really enjoyed the one last year. I tried pretty hard to suck in as many people as I could, but I'd say the majority of weekend mountain bikers wouldn't be able to finish even this easier course.
 
Norm said:
Love you too G.

Originally this was going to be an endurance event, similar to last year but a different format. We had some people register early, and the feedback was that Mooch was too intimidating, so we dialed it back a bit and made it more xc-length to try and get more people interested. At that point, some people had paid, and the price was set. So it was what it was. I understand that it's an expensive race, but we wanted to put on something that people would not be intimidated by so we changed the format.

I want to offer some food option but without the numbers I can't do that. If we get a critical mass by next week I may be able to offer something in the cafeteria for racers. At this stage I'm still looking at a several thousand dollar loss on this race.

Assuming this race exists next year, I think we need to either go massive or go short track. So $75 or $15. Trying to split the difference does not appear to be the trick.

Thanks for all who are coming out to support. It is greatly appreciated.
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Thanks. Not a personal attack Norm. There are other races I feel this way about (the DH 40 is way to short a race, time wise, to warrent a $75 pricetag). For what it's worth, the 6 pack was absolutely priced appropriately.
I was actually planning on doing the Mooch race but as I was about to sign up I started having that feeling...you know the one...where something just isn't sitting right. It's just not enough racing for 50 bucks. If the race were 4 laps, or maybe even 3 (or 2x 20 mile laps), it would be a good value, regardless of what else you offered.
Not that it matters at the 11th hour, but I'd have kept the original endurance format at that price and offered a 25 mile option for $25-$30 for those who felt intimidated by the longer distance. Hardly a novel concept; they did it last weekend at Rattling Creek, and at the Michaux series.
Most of the evidence suggests that people like hard endurance races. This is why Bearscat sold out in 3 days, and the Stoopid 50 and Michaux races do big numbers and have stood the test of time. The difficulty and the challenge (a.k.a. intimidation factor) are what draws people to those races. They all offer 4+ hours of racing, plus...they pay cash in all classes, have free food (and in some cases, beer as well) and good swag.
As far as I'm concerned, the foremost factor that makes a race a good value is the race itself; meaning the course, how long I'll be racing, and how chalenging it will be. The prize money, food, swag etc. matters, but not as much. That said, all the above races are 60 bucks, which is pretty much the going rate for 4hr/6hr/50 mile races. Some are more, some less, but all in the ballpark.
There is a good possibility that the price is what's kept people away and put you in a siuation where you're going to lose money on the event. All that said, I may still do it...I just love riding my bike at the 'Mooch
-G
 
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thedoner said:
Thanks. Not a personal attack Norm.
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Thanks for the reply. I assumed your post, along with TJ's love letter on Facebook, meant that you 2 were hanging out and starting trouble. If Bill makes mention of something, that's why 🙂 I'm really happy to see you respond again because I was pretty disappointed to think that was the case.

There are 2 ways to look at it. In 1 sense, this race is out of line with other XC-length races. I explained why above, it was a bit of a tough situation. In another sense, consider road/cross racing. I'm doing a crit today that will be 45 minutes (um, it may last 9 minutes for me actually with this field) and I pay $30. In that light, a 2-ish hour event for $50 isn't actually so bad.

As Jimmy says, keep in mind the women are $10. Also, I am not double charging teams, which is unheard of. A team will be $30 a person.

Also, keep in mind the ST races were $15 each. TJ made mention of us being money whores (my translation of his words) but last year we took every dollar from the ST series and had a party, and this year we spent $700 on a catered party after the last ST race. Name me 1 other race promoter that takes *all* of the income and puts it back into the community.

I also bought the BSA almost $2000 of bikes last fall, and then $500 of tools/supplies for their camp shop.

My point: Despite TJ's assertion, I do not pay for my kid's college education with these races.

I also give back to the volunteers, in various ways. Do you know how hard it is to get people to volunteer for 10 races a year? Does any other promoter or team promote 10 races a year? Anywhere in the country?

Sorry, got off track. Just want to make it clear that this is not a money-making venture, especially this race. We do make money on the Six Pack, bit again, much of that goes back out to the team/community.

To the point: You make absolutely valid points from top to bottom about the venue and format. I made this choice to do this race format this year, and price it as such. I admit I made a mistake, and will have to eat it if people don't come out to support. I chose middle-of-the-road and it wasn't the right choice. I'm still trying to figure out the magic elixir of what race would be best. Having said that, I do not think that an epic race would do that well, as many people told me they can't come because this weekend is sandwiched between this weekend's 100 (NH? I forget) and Shenandoah. So...what to do?

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and am open to suggestions. At this point, in 2013, this will be ST race #1 in the fall series. I just don't see how we can swing the enduro between existing national events. The other ones you mention don't battle for racers like we would.

Ultimately, I do know that I need to pick a format and stick to it. The format change from year to year (which I thought would be neat) does not appeal to people it seems. So I guess re-defining what it is every year is not a great idea.

Anyway, hope to see you out there. And I think we'll get just enough racers to make it fun and not lose $$. But I'll let you know in a week from now.

Reg still open until Friday for those who want to try and paint it black for us:
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/16212

Thanks again!
 
Course is marked... Waivers at main camp office... A mile was added of HaB/challenge climb, tech and pure fun. GPS file to come...

Come pre ride at any time just please fill out a waiver. I think no matter what level racer you are this is the best race course you will find in NJ...
 
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Norm said:
Thanks for the reply. I assumed your post, along with TJ's love letter on Facebook, meant that you 2 were hanging out and starting trouble. If Bill makes mention of something, that's why 🙂 I'm really happy to see you respond again because I was pretty disappointed to think that was the case.

There are 2 ways to look at it. In 1 sense, this race is out of line with other XC-length races. I explained why above, it was a bit of a tough situation. In another sense, consider road/cross racing. I'm doing a crit today that will be 45 minutes (um, it may last 9 minutes for me actually with this field) and I pay $30. In that light, a 2-ish hour event for $50 isn't actually so bad.

As Jimmy says, keep in mind the women are $10. Also, I am not double charging teams, which is unheard of. A team will be $30 a person.

Also, keep in mind the ST races were $15 each. TJ made mention of us being money whores (my translation of his words) but last year we took every dollar from the ST series and had a party, and this year we spent $700 on a catered party after the last ST race. Name me 1 other race promoter that takes *all* of the income and puts it back into the community.

I also bought the BSA almost $2000 of bikes last fall, and then $500 of tools/supplies for their camp shop.

My point: Despite TJ's assertion, I do not pay for my kid's college education with these races.

I also give back to the volunteers, in various ways. Do you know how hard it is to get people to volunteer for 10 races a year? Does any other promoter or team promote 10 races a year? Anywhere in the country?

Sorry, got off track. Just want to make it clear that this is not a money-making venture, especially this race. We do make money on the Six Pack, bit again, much of that goes back out to the team/community.

To the point: You make absolutely valid points from top to bottom about the venue and format. I made this choice to do this race format this year, and price it as such. I admit I made a mistake, and will have to eat it if people don't come out to support. I chose middle-of-the-road and it wasn't the right choice. I'm still trying to figure out the magic elixir of what race would be best. Having said that, I do not think that an epic race would do that well, as many people told me they can't come because this weekend is sandwiched between this weekend's 100 (NH? I forget) and Shenandoah. So...what to do?

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and am open to suggestions. At this point, in 2013, this will be ST race #1 in the fall series. I just don't see how we can swing the enduro between existing national events. The other ones you mention don't battle for racers like we would.

Ultimately, I do know that I need to pick a format and stick to it. The format change from year to year (which I thought would be neat) does not appeal to people it seems. So I guess re-defining what it is every year is not a great idea.

Anyway, hope to see you out there. And I think we'll get just enough racers to make it fun and not lose $$. But I'll let you know in a week from now.

Reg still open until Friday for those who want to try and paint it black for us:
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/16212

Thanks again!
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Thanks for answering my question.
My post originated with my own frustration about the pricing. I train with TJ often and the subject came up as we were debating doing the race, but that's where it ends. My words are mine alone, an his are his...whatever they may be. I'm not trying pass any notes, or start trouble.
Yeah...the price of road races (crits in particular) is one of the reasons I'm not a road racer. Well, that and a serious fear of road rash and broken collarbones.
Allamuchy is such a big place for a race...next year I'd love to see and endurance race in the 2 x 20 mile lap format which takes full advantage of the amazing and varied terrian it offers. It could be done (the All-a-Muchy races were like that if I'm not mistaken. They took place before I lived here, but that's what I've heard). That just happens to be the kind of racing I like and I know I'm not alone. Build it and they will come. Price it at $60 and I'll pre reg in January.
-G
 
pre riders waiver forms will be at main office at main camp which is straight up from waterloo rd. After you fill out and are ready to roll continue up the main drive until you see your first arrow. Be safe and enjoy...
 
mattybfat said:
pre riders waiver forms will be at main office at main camp which is straight up from waterloo rd. After you fill out and are ready to roll continue up the main drive until you see your first arrow. Be safe and enjoy...
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can people preride whenever they want?
 
Rode it with Tron after the TM and this course is BAWLIN' yo! Trails be crispy like you never SEEN. She rode it and she was like "WHATTTT!? Are you serious Mooch?" Bumble bee stung Tron tho. But she was like "Please, I'll crush you anyway".
 
capedoc said:
Rode it with Tron after the TM and this course is BAWLIN' yo! Trails be crispy like you never SEEN. She rode it and she was like "WHATTTT!? Are you serious Mooch?" Bumble bee stung Tron tho. But she was like "Please, I'll crush you anyway".
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Will this be Tron's first race then?
 
SpartaBard said:
Will this be Tron's first race then?
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I rode this course with the intent to decide if this was possible. At this point I'm sad to say I don't think it is. I walked alot of the climbs (I bow to anyone who makes it up that first huge climb, that was just silly) and we cut the lap short because I was hurtin. But this is my first ride since purple cast off and I am still pretty much a beginner, so maybe next year. Fun fun park tho, I learned some rock garden lessons today. Was a good painful ride🙂
 
Megatron said:
we cut the lap short because I was hurtin. But this is my first ride since purple cast off and I am still pretty much a beginner, so maybe next year. Fun fun park tho, I learned some rock garden lessons today. Was a good painful ride🙂
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We didn't cut it THAT short. You rode the first 10 miles and the more challenging sections are towards the biginning. If you didn't have 8 weeks off the bike, I'm pretty sure you'd be fine to race. Your determination and fearlessness is impressive 🙂 Most beginners that I know of don't go and ride Mooch.
 
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